What is up with this curiosity about peoples personal habits

MagentaYenta

Wed, Aug 02 2017, 10:43 pm

From linens to toothbrushing. Admittedly I'll reply to the threads but every couple of months someone is curious about linens or tooth brushing or other personal habits. It's not like my linen changing is going to spur anyone on to changing more frequently. And what is the concern about how often one wears a bra before washing?

I'm currently a member of a couple of women's forums, all general interest. I can say for sure in the ten years I've been a member of these groups no one has asked about changing sheets or brushing teeth or the frequency of washing bras.

zaq

Wed, Aug 02 2017, 10:51 pm

Might it be related to the heavy emphasis on conforming in frum circles, particularly right-of-center ones? Mistameh not. while the tznius police may monitor who does or does not wear a slip under her matte black jersey skirt, it's unlikely that they note how often people wash their intimate apparel or change their toothbrushes.

Otoh, maybe once a conformist, always a conformist, even in matters completely private.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Aug 02 2017, 10:56 pm

zaq wrote:

Ah you hit on something. A lot of these survey questions are about private issues, in a culture that values privacy about many topics. Heck kids aren't even permitted in some parents bedrooms. Is that why the majority of posters are Imas on the threads? This is a wonder question actually.

I remember once on a 'how often do you clean your bathroom' thread I mentioned everyday and got hugs. Huh?

MagentaYenta

Wed, Aug 02 2017, 10:58 pm

penguin wrote:

People are trying to figure out if they are on the normal part of the spectrum by comparing their habits to those of others?

You might think frum women would just have a tradition passed down from their home and think that's normal. But evidently that's not the case.

Ah the normal part of the spectrum. I guess that is a big concern for some.

mame1

Wed, Aug 02 2017, 11:04 pm

What is not up with it? It's just reassurance that you're doing things right, or curiosity to see what other people do. No one wants to be the one who is not brushing their teeth or changing their linens or washing their bra enough.

Although, I would like to say, if anyone wants to know, I just got some new laundry detergent that smells delicious. It was a little pricey- $9 at CVS, but it's heavenly. It is called Persil.

zaq

Wed, Aug 02 2017, 11:05 pm

My folks bought me a watch for my eighth or ninth bday. Unsure of how well it kept time, I would ask classmates what time they had. My watch was always off, sometimes slow and sometimes fast.

I complained to my dad, who compared my watch to the radio time. It was spot on for weeks. My dad explained that I had no reason to think anyone else's watch was more accurate than mine; in fact most of them were off, as listening to the radio proved.

That watch taught me an important life lesson: don't compare yourself to others. Their standards are no better than yours and possibly less so. Choose a good watch and rely on yours and yours alone.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Aug 02 2017, 11:19 pm

mame1 wrote:

I guess I'm not sure how or why and adult woman (often with children) would need reassurance about something as simple as brushing their teeth or changing linens. Yes, I would concur that some that have grown up in dysfunctional households could find the need for such support. Like I said earlier, I'm a long time member of two womens forums and not once in ten years has anyone expressed any insecurity about when they brush or do linens. We talk about food, current events, women's health, social issues, redecorating but never how often do you wash a bra.

Thanks for the detergent tip but not everyone can use a scented laundry soap.

mame1

Thu, Aug 03 2017, 1:14 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

Absolutely as grown women (collective) we should know when our linens need changed, our bras washed, and our teeth brushed. I feel like we learn that as children. I don't know why some people need reassurance. But alas, it is what it is. I don't think it's curiosity as much as it is a lack of confidence in what they're doing. I don't think it's because they necessarily want to do what everybody else is doing, but perhaps they really are second-guessing themselves in what they are doing. I think it's nice that we can come on and answer questions without making people feel bad about asking in the first place.

I'm sorry to hear that you can't use a scented laundry soap. I will keep you posted if Persil comes out with a non-scented detergent. I haven't used it yet- I'm just going by scent alone.

MagentaYenta

Thu, Aug 03 2017, 2:03 am

mame1 wrote:

I think your issue about reassurance and lack of confidence resonates. What is it in the frum world that keeps women from developing this confidence? We have successful business women here so there are some that do have that confidence to succeed and to be their own people.

I think Zaq made a great point up thread about conformity. Many women here live in cultures where conformity is the rule, the color of your nail polish (if you are permitted to use it) is a matter of conformity, the kind of eyeglasses your kids get is a matter of conformity, what colors you wear and what you cook are all matters of social conformity within a religious group. I also think that a goodly number aren't given the skills to be assertive about what they want or need.

As to the detergent I've been using 7th Generation for over 30 years. I'm good with it. TY

DrMom

Thu, Aug 03 2017, 2:36 am

ITA.

OTOH, I think sometimes these sorts of threads are a bracha. Like when some long-suffering wife wonders:

"My DH never brushes his teeth or showers, and only changes his underwear on Rosh Chodesh, turning them inside-out or inside-in every Shabbat. I am disgusted by his lack of hygiene, but somehow I gritted my teeth and managed to have 4 kids with him. However, now that I am pregnant with #5, I have a heightened sense of smell and I just cannot bring myself to be intimate with him. Is his behavior normal?"

It's nice that dozens of women can chime in and tell her: "Nope, not normal! Why didn't you drag him to a therapist years ago????"

Aylat

Thu, Aug 03 2017, 3:27 am

zaq wrote:

I really like this as a life metaphor. And it's not easy.

I see a mixture of motives in these threads. Some posters are just interested in other people's methods of housekeeping, maybe hoping to learn something. There is also insecurity and worry about not being good enough. And bra washing (where is that thread?!) sounds like voyeurism to me. The insecurity is the aspect that concerns me because I see a theme among frum women of feeling constant pressure to do everything, excel in everything. In parenting, the workforce, personal appearance, chessed, balabuste-ing and so on. And I feel like I'm on a campaign. We're not supposed to be superwomen. It's not what Hashem wants from us. It's a societal pressure that I'd like somehow to change.

My analysis of this issue might be off. Interested to hear others thoughts.

spikta

Thu, Aug 03 2017, 8:02 am

It may also be an issue of growing up with a cleaning lady + marrying young and not living alone before marriage.
If someone else always does your laundry and changes your sheets, it becomes invisible to you. Thus, you could get married at 21, without money and/or need for a cleaner, and find yourself not knowing how to manage a household. Some things are self explanatory, like - wash the dishes in the sink, do laundry when you run out of clean clothes. Some things are not, and it might be awkward to ask, because you don't want to be thought of as childish, unkempt and incompetent. So you ask anonymously on the internet.
That's my theory anyway Smile

mommy3b2c

Thu, Aug 03 2017, 8:27 am

zaq wrote:

"I don't say I'm no better then any body else, but I'll be danged if I ain't just as good!"

I wonder if anyone else on here knows where that line is from 😀

zaq

Thu, Aug 03 2017, 8:57 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

"I don't say I'm no better then any body else, but I'll be danged if I ain't just as good!"

I wonder if anyone else on here knows where that line is from 😀

Oklahoma! Broadway musical. Rodgers and Hammerstein. Aunt Eller sings this stanza in "the Farmer and the Cowman Should be Friends:

Aunt Eller:
I'd like to teach you all a little sayin'
And learn the words by heart the way you should
I don't say I'm no better than anybody else,
But I'll be d----ed if I ain't jist as good!

mame1

Thu, Aug 03 2017, 9:33 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

I agree that conformity is a huge issue. I don't understand why any group of women within a community is raised to believe that they must be exactly alike. That goes for men too. They aren't given the skills to reach for the stars. Mazel tov to the few that break out of that mold, that they are able to be such examples and show that you don't have to sacrifice your values to succeed. How do parents give tools to their children when they don't have them? I don't know what the answer to that is. I think it's natural to want your children to do better than yourself. Maybe this is something that is lacking.

It's an interesting point and it's a shame.

sleepybeauty

Thu, Aug 03 2017, 10:12 am

MagentaYenta wrote:

I'm on a few Facebook groups, some Jewish and some not. People ask questions like these all the time. Way more intimate ones too. I always assumed that it came up because of a debate they had with their spouse or because they're wondering if they should really be doing x more often or if they don't have to do it as often as they are.