Trouble falling asleep

amother

Beige

Mon, Aug 14 2017, 8:49 pm

DS is 6 and has ADHD and ASD. He recently started medication for the ADHD and this was going on before, so it's not the meds (plus we make sure not to give it past a certain time so it's out of his system). My pediatrician is not a fan of melatonin, but we were getting desperate (not just me and dh, ds too wants to fall asleep, he's tired and it doesn't feel good). Anyway, the pediatrician said to use a little melatonin and it worked for like a week, and then we had to increase the dose. Now that's stopped working and the pediatrician really isn't comfortable with him having more. The psychiatrist he sees for his ADHD said that it's common for non-neurotypical to have trouble falling alseep and there are sleep medications for children but he really doesn't like them except as an absolute last resort when all options have been exhausted (no pun intended). So I don't know what else to do. What haven't I tried yet? And yes, I've done the obvious- strict routine, no screens after x time, bedtime stories etc. My other kids go to bed fairly easily with a bit of whining here and there, but they are asleep at a normal hour.

amother

Turquoise

Mon, Aug 14 2017, 9:12 pm

When you say the adhd drug is out of his system in time, do you mean that it stopped working? Because often the side effects last longer than the desired ones. We had to pull ds off his extended release meds and put him on shorter acting ones because having the meds stop working at 6 was too close to his 8:30 bedtime.

Also, our ds had sleep issues without the adhd meds that could be addressed with melatonin, at a higher dose than today's standard of .5 or 1. But we had no choice- he had to sleep, and the dr said better a higher dose of it than other meds that come with side effects. But when we added the adhd meds, even whem we adjusted the timing, he could not fall asleep with just the melatonin. We had to add one of the other meds your dr mentioned. We ended up stoppong the adhsh meds for other reasons and the melatonin started working again.

amother

Beige

Mon, Aug 14 2017, 9:20 pm

He doesn't take extended release. They wear off around 3 or 4. Anyway, we were having issues before we started the meds. He's taking 2 mg of melatonin and it doesn't work and my pediatrician doesn't want him to take more.

seeker

Mon, Aug 14 2017, 9:38 pm

Weighted blankets are supposed to work wonders for people like this and I believe in it even though I haven't bought one yet - my sleep-challenged DD falls asleep better with heavy blankets piled on her and I (total insomniac) fall asleep best when one of my children is sprawled across me.

amother

Turquoise

Mon, Aug 14 2017, 9:52 pm

I use heavy blankets to sleep. Dd likes essential oils. Another dd needs a strict routine. Another needs complete dark. By all means, try them all. But my ds with asd and adhd was on 5 mg of melatonin for years, and sometimes needed a 1mg booster. My dr said it wasn't great, and to never go above 6, but that it was necessary. We were losing his behavior to the lack of sleep, even when he didn't feel or seem tired.

(Btw, it seems in retrospect that his body really wasn't making the melatonin he needed to get to sleep and we had to supply it. I conclude this because when he hit puberty (on time!) and all the other hormones came surging, he started falling asleep without us havibg to give him any melatonin. So we figure he got a surge.)

I'm not trying to tell you to do this. But I do recommend that you talk the whole thing over with the psychiatrist, developmental ped, or neurologist treating ds as opposed to the pediatrician. They may have some ideas.

Other non medicals you can use are progressive relaxation, yoga/massage, and music/white noise. We have had some success with all. Hatzlachah.

amother

Beige

Mon, Aug 14 2017, 10:00 pm

Can someone explain essential oils please? Like is it something they eat? Or like a scented candle? (Sorry if I sound stupid, people talk about essential oils all the time and I have no idea what they are).

seeker

Mon, Aug 14 2017, 10:04 pm

Using essential oils to promote healthy sleep usually means diffusing their scent at bedtime (using a diffuser, it's an electric device similar to a humidifier that puffs it into the air) and/or massaging the oils onto one's skin (often on the feet.) It's not like a scented candle because it's not just about the smell, it's about the chemical properties that come from certain plants.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Aug 14 2017, 10:07 pm

This is off the beaten path yet it has worked for me:

I, too, couldn't fall asleep and was dependent on melatonin for years.

A few months ago I read about grapefruit juice, freshly squeezed, helping for sleeplessness.

I decided to try it. I began to juice the grapefruits. The recommended amount is sixteen ounces a day for adults. It took at least a few weeks til I began to feel I don't need the melatonin anymore. I've been off melatonin for about a month. I"m now sleep-aid free, for the first time in years!

seeker

Mon, Aug 14 2017, 10:09 pm

Wow! ...but that's a LOT of grapefruit juice.
Also be very sure to clear it thoroughly with your doctor because grapefruit has a lot of negative interactions with medications and health conditions.

yogabird

Mon, Aug 14 2017, 10:26 pm

amother wrote:

Interesting. I recently read about cherry juice being high in natural melatonin. Bought a natural concentrate but didn't work at all for us.

amother

Royalblue

Mon, Aug 14 2017, 10:28 pm

OP this is just a suggestion, but you may want to look at biomedical assessment and treatment that can potentially get to the root of the asd and adhd and take care of the insomnia that way too.

amother

Linen

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 8:44 pm

Could it be that he is now stressing out over the pressure to fall asleep? That is a huge contributor to insomnia. It starts out minor and takes on a life of its own when the kid realizes that he can't make himself sleep. Make it clear to him that it's okay if he reads in bed to help him fall asleep, so that it can happen organically. Look into cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. Most sleep specialists frown on melatonin. It's really best for something like jet lag, not great for falling asleep on a nightly basis.

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 8:48 pm

seeker wrote:

Wow! ...but that's a LOT of grapefruit juice.
Also be very sure to clear it thoroughly with your doctor because grapefruit has a lot of negative interactions with medications and health conditions.

I read about this remedy in a thin book by Norman Walker. He writes about specific juices helping for specific ailments.

seeker

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 9:51 pm

amother wrote:

... Most sleep specialists frown on melatonin. It's really best for something like jet lag, not great for falling asleep on a nightly basis.

I know that's the general rule, but I have cooked up my own as-yet-unsupported theory that some people just need more melatonin the way some people are chronically vitamin deficient. Not true for most people and it shouldn't be used as a "cheat" by people who don't want to deal with things like bedtime discipline and routines, or healthy eating/activity/screentime patterns, but there are some people who really just don't seem to have anything in their body triggering the physiological desire to sleep!

yogabird

Tue, Aug 15 2017, 10:11 pm

seeker wrote:

Dunno I don't buy it. (Neither do I buy ppl being chronically vitamin deficient for absolutely no reason and not fixable...) I think it's more like other things getting in the way of melatonin working the way it's supposed to.

And it could be that the same parts of the brain/neurotransmitters that are affected in adhd, anxiety, depression also affect sleep regulation. Dopamine. Basal ganglia.

ETA: I googled melatonin deficiency and it seems it is a thing, there's even a blood test for it. Still I doubt it's the root cause for most ppl with insomnia.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Aug 17 2017, 4:36 am

I have ADHD and had insomnia since I was very young (with and without medication), so it is very normal. I just suffered through it for many years. As an adult, I went to psychologist who specialized in a special CBT program for insomnia (based on a book by a professional). It changed my life - I went from taking hours to fall asleep to just minutes, woke up less at night, and if I did wake up at night I could fall back asleep quickly. I don't know if the program can work for children, but it is definitely worth looking into.