How to empathize when I disagree

amother

Azure

Thu, Sep 14 2017, 3:32 pm

Whenever I don't agree with my 12 year old dd, she gets upset that I am not seeing things from her point of view and that I am trivializing her pain and validity of her feelings etc.
She is not my first child, she is the first to accuse me of this (but regardless I need to do better).
She is definitely very sensitive and reacts to things in ways that I would not. I do try to express sympathy etc that ABC is difficult for her (even if I wouldn't find it to be that way) but obviously she is picking up (for the most part accurately) on the fact that I don't think it's a "big deal" or that I don't agree... She says "even when you empathize with me, you're just doing that because you know that you're supposed to." Ouch
The thing is, and I asked her this and she had no answer, it seems to me that the only response to her that she would find acceptable is if I 100% agree with her and totally get her point of view. What if I truly don't? How do I convey that in a way that she won't find offensive?

Thanks

amother

Azure

Thu, Sep 14 2017, 3:58 pm

tichellady wrote:

Give us a real example ( or can be fake but close enough to real to get the idea).

Okay, I'm going to try but probably won't do a great job (because I'm so confused as to where I went wrong here that I'm probably missing something in the retelling). . .

She asked for a haircut last week and I said she didn't need one yet. This week she says she must get one asap, I don't appreciate how embarrassing it is for her blah, blah, blah. I relented and said she could get a haircut 2 days later. She was mad because even though I said she could get a haircut, I did it in a way that she knows I don't think she really needs one and I don't understand the gravity of the situation (how tragic it is to have an overgrown haircut) and . . .

I don't think she needs a haircut but understand that it's very important to her and I am getting her one asap. Where did I go wrong? My impression is that she wanted me to a) get her the haircut and b) agree that she needs it already and it's a travesty that she hasn't gotten it one. I'm good for a and hear her that she feels b, but I don't! Now what?

amother

Magenta

Thu, Sep 14 2017, 4:00 pm

Are there ways for you to bend just a little to her point of view? I'm working on this now too With my tween.
I also find when I'm more honest about my feelings even if they're not necessarily what she wants to hear, and I'm not trying hard to be nice and empathetic, it works out better. When I say all the right words of empathy but don't actually feel that empathetic she tells me not to treat her like a baby shock

. I guess that's how she translates me kind of being distant but kind. She feels it's disingenuous.

tichellady

Thu, Sep 14 2017, 4:06 pm

I think it's great you are working on this and I'm not being critical of you, just trying to help ( so keep that tone in mind).

When she asked for a haircut why did you say " you don't need one now". She's 12 years old, not a baby anymore. Was it a $ issue? A scheduling issue? Maybe if you had just said, " ok let's schedule it soon " she would have felt heard instead of feeling like you don't think she doesn't even know when she needs a haircut

Iymnok

Thu, Sep 14 2017, 4:27 pm

Responding with a type of "no you don't" can feel like you don't value how she feels.
Try asking why?
Or, what is wrong with how it is now?
By asking more when you disagree shows that you want to see her side, even if you may still not agree in the end, she is more likely to feel that you are trying to understand her.

So, in your example, "your hair looks beautiful to me, why do you feel a need for a haircut?"
"Is there something coming up that you need it so urgently?"

amother

Crimson

Thu, Sep 14 2017, 4:56 pm

tichellady wrote:

She said "can I get a haircut tomorrow" and I responded "I don't think you need one now but I'll get you one in a few weeks." Money is definitely an issue (and she knows it although she doesn't particularly care which I know is normal for a 12 year old).

amother

Crimson

Thu, Sep 14 2017, 4:58 pm

Iymnok wrote:

This sounds like a good idea and I will try it (asking more questions). I fear that she'll take it as me being patronizing and not understanding her etc but it's definitely worth a try. . .

Keep the ideas coming. . .Thanks!

amother

Lime

Thu, Sep 14 2017, 5:38 pm

I see two issues here: the first is her need for a haircut. Only she can know when she feels uncomfortable in her body/overgrown hair. She's the only authority on her level of comfort/discomfort.
The other issue is the cost and your energy that goes into scheduling, etc. That is something you are the authority on. You get to decide whether or not to spend your money on her haircut at this time.
If money is the issue, it's fair to ask her if she can find a way to pay for it cuz right now you are tight.
And if scheduling us an issue, it's ok to ask if she'd be willing to schedule the appointment.
I can't underline enough just how important it is for a teen or preteen girl to have her preferences related to dress/hair valued.
Soon enough your sweet little obedient girl will be a developed young woman. When, if not now, is she to learn to trust her self-assessments, her sense of agency, her volition? How is she gonna learn to trust her own sense of self-care when her mother invalidates or argues with it? Do you wish to be in a supervisory role with her with regard to matters related to hair and fashion? If yes, until what age would you like to relate in that way with her?
At a certain age we begin to lengthen the leash. Granted, many parents have a hard time with the transition. I'm not saying this is the case for you, I'm saying that if it is you're in good company.
Please don't hinder her. Support her.
Your birdie wants to practice flying solo. Please don't clip her wings.
And lastly, you were a kid once upon a time. Maybe your mother dictated your life in terms of haircuts, etc. Maybe that worked for you. Clearly, it's not working for your daughter.
And finally, I'm impressed with your striving to be a better mom :-)

amother

Azure

Thu, Sep 14 2017, 9:00 pm

amother wrote:

I see two issues here: the first is her need for a haircut. Only she can know when she feels uncomfortable in her body/overgrown hair. She's the only authority on her level of comfort/discomfort.
The other issue is the cost and your energy that goes into scheduling, etc. That is something you are the authority on. You get to decide whether or not to spend your money on her haircut at this time.
If money is the issue, it's fair to ask her if she can find a way to pay for it cuz right now you are tight.
And if scheduling us an issue, it's ok to ask if she'd be willing to schedule the appointment.
I can't underline enough just how important it is for a teen or preteen girl to have her preferences related to dress/hair valued.
Soon enough your sweet little obedient girl will be a developed young woman. When, if not now, is she to learn to trust her self-assessments, her sense of agency, her volition?
Please don't hinder her. Support her.
Your birdie wants to practice flying solo. Please don't clip her wings.
And lastly, you were a kid once upon a time. Maybe your mother dictated your life in terms of haircuts, etc. Maybe that worked for you. Clearly, it's not working for your daughter.
And finally, I'm impressed with your striving to be a better mom :-)

The point isn't whether she's right or wrong about needing a haircut, it was the most recent example I could come up with and I immediately got her the haircut the next time she asked me but regardless. . . unless you are telling me that every single decision she makes is the right one and mine is always the wrong one (which would be surprising considering the fact that I'm in my 40s and she's 12, aside from the fact that I appear to making adequate decisions concerning the rest of my children) and I should always simply do what she thinks makes sense. . . this doesn't address my question of what to do when my child is in the wrong (which does happen, even if you don't agree that it was the case in this situation).

My experience with her is that any time I don't agree with her (or give her what she wants immediately) she is resentful and claims that I don't understand her point of view enough and I trivialize her pain. . .

I am trying to figure out how I can convey an understanding and sympathy even when I don't necessarily entirely agree with her view. . .

imasinger

Thu, Sep 14 2017, 9:14 pm

I think it may take some experimenting with the different approaches here to find what works.

My suggestion would be to both increase your praise and appreciation of her in general, and to increase your treating her like the adult she is starting to become in situations like the haircut.

"So you are concerned that your hair is getting harder to manage, or that it's not looking right? I see what you mean, it might be good to get it cut. To be honest, I'd like you to wait a few weeks if you can. My problem is that we have a lot of additional expenses right now with YT coming, and I'm having trouble budgeting in a haircut just now. Hmm, what if I could count on you to make (fill in the blank) rather than spending the money to buy it? That would cover about half a haircut. Do you have any other ideas?"

You can use this approach with lots of things. Validate her perspective. Explain your own. Express a willingness to come up with a solution, and invite her to join you in problem solving.

And again, be as positive about her strengths as possible, as much of the time as you can.

petiteruchy

Thu, Sep 14 2017, 9:47 pm

I'm also picking up on a little resentment of your daughter. Fact is, you're lucky that up 'til now you haven't had an overly contrary child! It's really normal in my view for children to go through this stage... and I have very clear memories of my mother and I having the same arguments, and expect that I will have the same with my daughters.

There isn't an easy way through this. Part of it is her desire for more freedom, even though she's not really completely ready for it. Part of it is that she's still in developmental stage of seeing herself as the center. She's not quite ready to see herself as part of a web of others yet, or to consider their wants and needs as easily as her own. Because children this age are often very articulate, because they can do things on their own and be quite logical when it comes to their own wants and needs, it's hard for us to remember that they are still in a "self"-centered stage. Part of it is that arguing with you is a way for her to affirm that she is growing up and has her own agency.

Since she wants freedom, can't yet put others ahead of herself, and finds arguing with you self affirming, you aren't left with many choices but to just carry on through. Practice your active listening skills (make time to listen, repeat her feelings with "I hear you saying that ___", use "I" statements), find time to give her positive attention and ask her opinion, let her overhear you make positive comments about her, draw firm boundaries and avoid getting drawn into protracted arguments. There will be times when there is no outcome that can be won by logic, because she's not in a logical frame of mind. Best thing you can do is to remain calm, firm, and don't take her arguments personally.