Del | Imamother

Kiwi13

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 2:15 pm

I wonder what would happen if the kids started calling him Rabbi 1-2-3?

(Obviously I’m not serious.)

Very odd. It’s either a big misunderstanding (like a grading system or similar) or very inappropriate.

amother

Mistyrose

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 2:16 pm

In HS one of my teachers did this.
She used the numbers to announce scores on a test
This way only the student knew what there score is

8 is too young, but I don’t think the Rebbe is addressing the kids that way

Studious

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 2:24 pm

trixx wrote:

I can easily be dlkz this - a prominent rabbi doesn't want the intimacy of knowing his teenage female students names.

This is not the case with 8 year old boys and a male teacher - they should specifically be developing a strong mentor/father like relationship with him. That's basically the job description at this age. What they learn is not as important as who they learn it from.

If that is his approach then he shouldn’t be teaching girls. Avoiding names of students is simply dehumanizing. There’s a limit to how much someone can do for his own benefit, when his actions come at the expense of other people. A teacher’s job is to teach, inspire and empower, not to belittle and dehumanize.

Last edited by Studious on Sun, Jan 05 2020, 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

Kiwi13

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 2:32 pm

Your complaint is that your child’s rebbe dehumanizes and demoralizes the precious young children entrusted to his care, modeling for them a cold and impersonal (and as you put it, rigid and joyless) world.

littleprincess

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 2:36 pm

My sons rebbe in kita alef (4-5 years old ) gave every boy a letter of the alef bays and all their papers had that letter . But he never called the boy by his letter . He did it cos the boys didnt know how to write their names yet and it was easier for them to identify their papers or siddur by finding their letter .
My son knew which letter every boy has but never called a boy by his letter

Kiwi13

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 2:42 pm

These things are complicated, for sure. If overall it’s in your son’s best interest to stick out the year in this class, that’s what you should do. It doesn’t excuse the rebbe’s behavior, but unfortunately we all encounter difficult situations and people. My best advice is to give your son extra love and encouragement, and as hard as it is, try not to disparage his rebbe in front of him (or within earshot). His rebbe is still his rebbe and should be respected even though his approach is really yikes. (As long as no one is getting hurt). I’m sorry, OP. In the long run your child will internalize more about his worth and belonging in the world from you than from this one teacher.

amother

Ivory

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 2:44 pm

In Auschwitz people are known by numbers as well. I would bring that to the attention of tha administration and see what they think.
It is never acceptable. I do not care if they are girls or boys, the age of the student, or how many students the teacher has. It is dehumanizing, which was the intention in the camps. Is that the purpose of the Rebbi calling them by numbers, so they won't have an ego? Or is he really that lazy and selfish? To me that sounds insane.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 2:51 pm

I could see the rebbe's point if half the class was named Dovi, the other half was Yitzy, and they were all cousins with the same middle and last name. Otherwise, there's no excuse.

I did hear once about BY girls putting their phone numbers on a test instead of their names, because the teachers were grading the popular girls higher than the nerdy girls. "Amazingly", the scores evened out.

amother

Black

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 5:03 pm

This is so wrong on so many different levels.

I never had teachers who didn't take the trouble to learn names. They used seating charts until they learned names but we were always called by our names from the very start of the term.

In high school, some of the teachers were more formal (male and female) and they addressed us as Miss X but they did this because it was more formal and old fashioned - but again they knew everyone's name and I would imagine our whole names as well.

It is a cliche in popular culture that uncaring teachers and bosses don't bother to learn names but address their students and subordinates as numbers - and then they have a "break trough" and realize the students/subordinates are people and learn their names.

What is odd is that it would seem to be as difficult to memorize a number as a name - in some ways more difficult since most people can use memory games to associate names with faces and I would think it would be harder to do with a number assigned to a face.

My brother went to a small school and he actually had another classmate with same first and last name but luckily their middle names were different so they were nicknamed with their middle names. It was my brother's nickname long after he graduated Very Happy

amother

Emerald

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 5:14 pm

singleagain wrote:

At least, miss lastname, if first name is to intimate.

I went to a seminary and the male teachers didn't even take attendance. The madrichot would before class. It was a school policy.

The principal called us all Miss First and Last name.

I never had an issue with the teachers not taking attendance. If a girl asked a lot of questions or came up to them after class to talk more in depth they would ask for a name to continue having the conversation. But the idea was they didn't get to know us all by name.

They do recognize me by face when I see them though!

trixx

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 5:16 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This is exactly as odd as it seems. It's not a misunderstanding, and it's not to protect kids' feelings when announcing test scores. He calls out "numbers 20 - 25 are able to head out to play" or "go to the lunchroom".

I knew of this at the start of the year, but figured it was just until he learns the names. This also seemed to be less of an issue than the overall rigidity and joyless classroom atmosphere my son described. I've reached out to the menahel regarding the bigger things and let this slide. I am now reading the responses and thinking this may be another manifestation of all the unhealthiness and it isn't an innocent isolated issue.
Oy. Not sure how to deal with this all.

Also, at this point the Rebbe knows my son's name, so what is my complaint??

No these are all symptoms of the same terrible teacher.
I know 2 brothers who were in a class like this one, also in 1st or 2nd grade, they had the same rebbe a year or whatever apart. One suffered terribly and took it all to heart. One let it all slide and emerged unscathed. If your son is sensitive, switch him immediately if possible. It really causes irreparable damage otherwise. That's not a glib statement.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 8:28 pm

This is a new one - first time I hear that a teacher or Rebbe doesn't get to know the students' names.
Feels so degrading.
It gives me chills to be identified by a number and like someone posted it does not dredge up happy memories -Yerachem Hashem.
I'm curious - is it only by written tests that the students write their "identity" number?
How does it work if the Rebbe asks a question during the lesson and students raise their hands to answer? How does he call the boy he chooses to answer?
Or if the Rebbe wants a student to do an errand for him, like send him to the sec'y's office to ask for something; how does he call the student he chooses to run the errand?
Trying to be dan lekaf zchus - perhaps the Rebbe has a problem remembering who's who if a few students have the same name?
I would have a talk with the Rebbe first.
I never speak to the principal first before the teacher/Rebbe unless it's some emergency.

Stars

Sun, Jan 05 2020, 9:20 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Even then they should be called Yitzy 1, Yitzy 2, or better yet Dovi Z. , Dovi S. , Dovi B1 and Dovi B2.