Dd22 road tripping across country and looks pritzus

tichellady

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 10:52 am

watergirl wrote:

OP, where is the pritzus? Her bra strap is showing. Is she wearing a skirt over the leggings? I do not think its a great idea to lump these quite minor things with the term pritzus, which indicates something much more than a strap.

Why is she meeting with a chassidish guy for a date if she is not in that place at this time? She should not be going to play a part if thats not who she is. If it were the other way around, we would see a post here in a year from a newly married woman saying information was withheld from her and she was sold a story when they were dating. No double standards, please.

This! Clothing is not pritzus and it seems like there is a lot of confusion here about who she should be dating.

amother

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 11:57 am

tichellady wrote:

This! Clothing is not pritzus and it seems like there is a lot of confusion here about who she should be dating.

OP here...
Her dress: Leggings are under a long shirt/ dress that ends many inches above knee. In pics the shirt is pushed up to reveal most of thighs while sitting,lying on a rock, etc.. elbows showing. Her tops are very open revealing most of shoulder so her camisole shows over shoulders (no cleavage showing). Sometimes the tops are more sheer, revealing camisole underneath. She does not wear makeup, just a tan, very blond. She has the sweetest neshama, but with me can be punitive. She has some mild anxiety issues, which is why I suggested therapy. She does do alternative type "healing" work.

When she was home for quarantine I paid her to try a dating coach. She told me she was lovely but talked too much and would never use her again. I do not think dd is committed to shomer negiah..stam.
The boy she is supposed to meet is supposed to be a baal chesed. A few people that know them both suggested., because they are both kind and like to have fun..extroverts.. I told shaddchan her tznius was "so-so" because a few weeks ago, it was. My dd told me she saw him once in a store and thinks he's ugly. He is objectively average. I suggested she meet once and if she still feels that way to forget it. This boy is 5 years, older, supposed to be very kind, funny, great career, etc. She told shaddchan she was willing to have a casual coffee date if she has time ( leaving room to not do it). She has two friends that have dated him so she asked about him.
Her last two boys were very good-looking but shallow and with one, she felt like arm candy and ended it. The other one was spiritual ( like her) but she said he could not laugh or have fun and she felt like his mother, so she ended it. So I figured try something different? Obviously, she cannot find him ugly, but a simple conversation can shift things perhaps. Dd is not shallow but very spiritual. She would never go to Neve because she is committed to her derech, albeit in a way I don't understand. There are so many moving parts and I think maybe she IS unconsciously sabotaging shidduchim, dating previously boys that are not marriage material ( closer to her age).
Thank you all for so much great support. I know Hashem has someone just for her and I daven and just love her. It is not easy to watch her struggle so much in general though.

SixOfWands

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 12:26 pm

Success10 wrote:

It's not about the tznius. She seems to be seeking attention, in an unhealthy way. She also needs clear direction what kind of life she wants and what kind of home she wants to build. Until then, she probably shouldn't date.

I respectfully disagree, in part.

It doesn't sound like seeking attention, or pritziut, or any other negative. It sounds like she's trying out of role of dressing in a more secular manner. Not optimal, of course, But also not pathological.

Which is where I agree with you. She hasn't decided who she is or who she wants to be. She shouldn't be dating until she does. Its not fair to the men.

Success10

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 12:30 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

It could be she is finding her own way, but certain parts of her demands of a young man seem to indicate she is a very frum person, in some ways, at least. While it's not fair to try to fit her into some sort of box, it will make it hard to find a suitable match. We both agree she needs to sort through everything and figure out who she is.

Also, I still think sending her mother pictures that will clearly make her mother upset is some sort of cry for attention.

southernbubby

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 1:31 pm

A lot of people self sabotage shidduchim because they really don't want to get married. They say that they want to get married and go through the motions but deep down, they don't want it. I know 2 young men in long term relationships with women who are old enough or almost old enough to be their mothers but they know that these women are finished having children. Yet, they stay in these safe marriage free relationships.
Her message to you with the pictures is that she isn't interested in getting married at the moment.

giselle

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:04 pm

lamplighter wrote:

If you are Lubavitch, which sounds like it from your posts. I don't think she's confused. I think she is doing what many girls her age are. Because she can get away with it so to speak and still marry a good boy.
Unfortunately or wtvr it's very common for chassidish guys to marry girls who struggle in tznius. Usually after marriage it all kind of mellows.

Maybe this should be a spinoff, but why is it like this specifically in those circles? I’m just curious..
Completely unfamiliar with lubavitch.

ShishKabob

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 2:05 pm

avrahamama wrote:

The OP even suggested to her daughter that she look into a pool of boys that would be ok with her dress. From what the OP says her daughter wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants to dress "modern" but marry chasidish.

I have seen a lot of girls like this. They want to live a modern life and wear the modern trendy s-xy stuff....but they want a man that is more conservative and right wing who will be tolerant of their wives more liberal tendencies. It's a tough dynamic and difficult to find or navigate.

One girl I mentor dresed modern and listens to music and movies but has had no physical contact with a boy. She wants a boy that will keep shomer negiah and who is right wing. But she doesn't give off those vibes. Not in her pictures (kissy face, tongue out, pursed lips), not in her dress, etc. But when you know her. She is pure. Kind. Gentle. Loving. Faithful. But the boys she wants don't want the challenge. It's upsetting to see her struggle.

You are soooo spot on!

naturalmom5

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 3:35 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Is there a lunar and solar eclipse tonite.

I am actually in full agreement with 6..

If it exists , are there still MO singles events.. Very often out of the box guys from Charedi famiilies come.

She can meet boys in a non pressure , not really dating atmosphere, and get an idea who she is comfortable with..

If that is out of her comfort zone, she really needs to tow the line with dress code..

Sorry, I dont make the rules...

chanchy123

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 4:13 pm

Success10 wrote:

I don’t think she’s intentionally sending pritsudic pictures to her mom in order to upset her. She’s a typical 23 year old and is taking a million pictures of herself and she’s sending the ones she thinks she came out there best in. She’s probably posting them on Instagram too and WhatsApping her friends. She’s just not hiding her true self from her mom - which I think is wonderful given the situation.
OP, your daughter’s standards sound like what I expect of my girls. Cover their arm to their elbow. Shorter skirts/dresses/Tunics are ok if they’re worn over leggings. My struggle is with my tweens who pull their skirts way up so they hit their mid-thighs. I an really dreading their teen years (conversely my teenage daughter is perfectly fine with tznius). We all have our struggles.

amother

Seashell

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 4:16 pm

lamplighter wrote:

This!
Except we don't generally use the word pritzus.

amother

Honeydew

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 5:23 pm

I’m going to say this as respectfully as I can.

There’s a lot here that doesn’t make sense.

I’m guessing you are Lubavitch. But a few things don’t make sense.

1. You mentioned her possibly dating someone MO because of her tznius. There’s are so many other things that differentiate a Chabad girl and a MO boy. A chabad girl isn’t a MO Girl basically who wears stockings. There’s so many other things. So I am not sure why that would be something you want unless there’s more going on here then tznius.

2. There are literally hundreds of young women who dress like your daughter in chabad and hundreds of young men who marry girls who dress like your daughter. Any chabad shadchan is familiar with the type.

3. There are plenty of Chabad young men who are very spiritual and have a lot of hiskashrus but struggle in other areas and would happily marry someone who struggled with their tznius.

From your posts it seems like although Chabad yourself you aren’t very familiar with the chabad community and culture and perhaps this could be a contributing factor in the difficulty with Shidduchim.

And as an aside. I don’t think there’s anything positive to be labeling your daughter clothing choices as pritzus.

slpmom

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 5:51 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Cheiny

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 5:56 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My dd22 is making a cross- country trip and is sending me pictures. The scenery is breathtaking, while she does not even look frum: leggings, bra-strap showing. She obviously is not censoring what she is showing me. She has always struggled with tznius but this is beyond...Recently a boy she wanted to date,flat-out told her she was not tznius enough for him. It is taking ALL my self control to not say anything. She is supposed to meet a nice frum/chassidish, open- minded boy when she gets to his town and I'm thinking perhaps I should discourage it if she is going to be showing up so un-tznius. Then again, maybe she won't show up that way and I should stay silent. When I see the pics, I say, "it's so good to see you" or " this trip looks so fun." However, my heart breaks because she is so beautiful but obviously she has low self esteem and only values her looks. Her friends are also rebels from large frum families. None of these girls are getting married. They keep a very high level of kashrus, learn, daven ( some), but " good " boys are not interested and yet they seem clueless. I guess I just need to vent. Anything I would say to her about tznius would cause a fight. So I bite my tongue.

You’re assuming the friends are clueless that good boys aren’t interested. I doubt that’s true. I would sooner assume those girls don’t want “good” boys, at least right now.Clearly they’re rebelling against something, some part of frumkeit or maybe the community, but they surely know well that the way they dress will not get them “good” boys.

Your dd’s choice of friends unfortunately are encouraging and enabling her to continue this negative behavior. I’d say you should speak to someone in kiruv about how best to deal with her. One thing is for sure, you should always continue to show her love and acceptance, as I’m sure you already are. Hatzlacha raba, I hope she finds her way back to your way of life very quickly.

Last edited by Cheiny on Wed, Aug 12 2020, 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Blush

Wed, Aug 12 2020, 5:58 pm

banana123 wrote:

I think it's noteworthy that your DD is sending you uncensored photos, even though she knows you don't approve of her tznius. That says a lot about your relationship with her, that she feels like she can be so open with you.

You're doing something right. Keep it up.

Either that or she’s tying to flaunt her not being tsnius in her mothers face to rebel. I know people like that in my family. She might have some kind of hostility or anger