DS frummer than family and causing issues

amother

Mon, Aug 17 2020, 11:55 pm

DS has always been a little ... intense and as he grows up (he’s 14) he just moves more and more to the right and gets madder and madder at the rest of the family (for staying in the same place).

It causes a lot of friction in the family as he will make insulting and judgmental comments about the rest of the family... he feels that we’re all going straight to h*ll and that he’s “mechuyav” to give us mussar all day... it also makes HIM miserable (as it embarrasses, as well as causes him intense emotional pain to be family with such sinners...)

He tends to be very black and white (as I guess many teenagers are) but I’m pulling out my hair from him some times.

Some examples (of things that make him really upset but that the rest of the family is not willing to change) would be reading secular books (ie Harry Potter) and newspapers, his father occasionally not davening with a minyan (why is this his business?!!?), younger siblings not being as makpid on Halacha as they will be at an older age (his parents place to decide, not his) not singing enough zemiros at the shabbos table, siblings having atypically yeshivish interests (ie survival skills or animals or luxury cars), not having “enough” emunas chachamim... the list is endless, just trying to give you an idea of the things he finds so offensive.

Any good advice on how to deal with this in a way that will make both him as well as his siblings and parents happy?

shmosmom

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 12:08 am

This is very annoying, and a challenging space to be in.
I'd take him to a neutral zone, like a drive or ice cream or coffee or whatever and explain to him than spirituality is the connection between God and man, and the same way you are allowing him to find his own path and respecting it, he has to give others the space to find their path. I'd also throw in something about there being many ways to be frum and how one isn't necessarily better or worse.
Good luck, OP.

amother

Linen

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 12:11 am

Sounds like me as a young flip out. I use to say the most ridiculous things. BH reality woke me up. And my amazing (FFB chareidi) husband helped anchor me.

If he is so into emunas chachamim, I believe its time to speak to his Rebbe who can guide him on this new path he wishes to embark on. If he thinks as B&W as your post makes him out to be, there's no arguing with daas torah in the yeshivish world Wink

amother

Indigo

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 12:14 am

Just a thought - perhaps he's anxious about whether he's doing enough, so he's taking it out on everyone else. I would address the anxiety, rather than the judgemental behavior. Easier said than done, I know.

Rappel

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 12:20 am

He sounds very 14. Hugs and chocolate, OP!

amother

Silver

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 12:25 am

Model being extremely respectful of ppl that have different hashkafa then you.

Don’t fight him, educate him. “We r proud u attend minyan 3 times a day. It is not in the spirit of kibud Av to point out when dad misses minyan.”

If it’s always an argument of religion, it doesn’t leave good vibes.

Switch it to a discussion of mentsxhlechkeit. An analogy I have is “tznius about your tznius” in other words, don’t go around boasting how ur wig is shorter, ur skirt is longer, clothes looser etc. just keep it low and do it for the sake you of making Hashem proud.

amother

Tan

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 12:41 am

Hi! I'm dealing with a Similar issue I struggled for years. me and my dh are very different then our ds 16 , my younger kids go to a more modern school whereas he went more to a chassidish one. Bh he is not anymore how he was as when he was younger, his yashiva bh worked with him and made him realize that he has to respect the rest of the family eventhough he had chose a different direction for himself. With lots of hard work he came a long way. Now his dress code is also very different then our entire family, he chose way more a Frumer and chassidish way of dressing, example: he wears a very big round kippa that covers his entire head , and long long payes, and ect. I'm not in any way looking down at it . I'm happy that he is strong about his image, but I don't say its easy. My house is a very open minded environment. We're not from the very chassidish people, and my ds is . It's very hard . It made him feel different than the rest of the family, but ITOH he loves that way. It was a terrible challenge to live with . Bh he is more mature now to understand to respect the people around him that are not the way he is, we give him a ton of support and compliments and he loves it . Just saying I feel u since I went trhough so many years conflicting with ds , and it caused bad relationships between us. It was terrible. He was an angry kid , he wanted everyone to match up to him, until I sent him to ton of help which did not help either. That said Bh since his yashiva got involved they helped him so much to see things in a different way.
He still dresses much frumer and different then us . But you know what? I'm proud that he is finding his happiness this way. I do wish he didn't wear his kippa the way he does, but as long as he respects us we need to also zipper our mouth. It's tough, it hard, we would love our kids to match up with us . It doesnt always work .
I wonder if u can involve a ruv , or one of his magashir to talk to him, or someone he would hear out. Their are ways u can make him change to see things differently . GL

P.S. main thing what I've did learn is that we as parents need to accept the way the kids are and that's how they will come and respect us. We are a very erlich family, it's just that he is more to an extreme. Like he wouldn't wear sneakers because he thinks it's not modest for a erlich boy , yet all my kids including my dh wears sneakers and I do feel it's much more practical. my ds would as of now never wear them. And a lot of dress up mashegasen . Sometimes I bite my tongue from it and I question myself where had he picked up such an extreme way , but I really had learned just to stay QUIET.

After all I'm proud of him but at the same time I do expect respecting others ...

amother

Apricot

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 12:49 am

If it's not religious OCD, tell him to be more strict with kibud av v'eim.

amother

Brunette

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 1:17 am

If he was my son I'd be interested to find out where his influences are coming from. Yeshiva? A friend? Internet? Keep an eye on him.

amother

Amber

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 1:39 am

Who's his Rosh Yeshiva? He could use a shmues on Mentchlichkeit, Hatznea leches, kibud av vaem and a few more important things. It's very 14 and very frustrating but also needs to be dealt with in a Torah way that encourages him to strive to grow in his avodas Hashem without stepping on others.

byisrael

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 2:30 am

He sounds like a normal 14 year old - he just happens to be using religion. They tend to feel like equals to the adults around them and think they know better then the rest of the world. They do grow up thankfully.

Don't get into arguments - it's unhelpful. Ignore or find a simple response and don't go further.
Example;
Why didn't daddy daven in a minyan
Thats btwn daddy and hashem
But halacha says .... and your alll such ..... and I'm so embarressed
Thats btwn daddy and hashem
This is the worst family ever your horrible parents.....
I'm sorry that you feel that way

Success10

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 3:50 am

I also agree with having his Rebbe speak to him. He has already labeled you as "not frum enough" in his head, and nothing you say will make a real impact.

Also, just try to be patient, since it's almost certain that he will grow out of it. Black and white thinking is classic teenager behavior.

amother

Bronze

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:23 am

He is still very young. I have seen boys who became ftb at this young age legit but his "problem causing" sounds anxiety based, maybe even religous ocd.

Please look into the mental health angle. Also have his rebbe/rav speak with him on the right way, of not imposing his growth in Torah on others, how and when mussar is inappropriate.

watergirl

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:28 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

BINGO. OP, this is a two-pronged approach. Make sure it is not religious OCD, which is what my first thought was. A competent, frum, licensed therapist should be able to assess. Also, he is getting this from some where. Start with speaking to his rebbe to see what he thinks. This behavior is not acceptable and I do not understand why people are saying this is typical for a 14 year old.

banana123

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:29 am

If he's going to rebel, better that he go to this extreme than the opposite. Smile

Tell him that you are proud of him and you understand that these things bother him. You will work to accommodate his needs and you expect him to turn a blind eye to others' ruchniyus failings and accommodate their needs, because that's what shalom is about, and you are a family. He's welcome to judge but if he wants to voice it, then it should be in private, not in front of his siblings.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:32 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

I agree with all of this.

He may be feeling the weight of his bar mitzva on his shoulders, and now he thinks that he's responsible for the whole world. He needs to get some guidance so that he'll know what is within his realm of influence, and what is not. Then he needs to learn how to let go of the things he can't control, and not freak out over them.

little neshamala

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:32 am

Take him to a Rav he respects who will hammer into him some lessons about kibud av v'aim, being humble, keeping personal growth to yourself, etc

amother

Emerald

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:44 am

Had a similar situation with DS16, though not as extreme. After you rule out religious OCD please please speak to his mashgiach or menahel. He is likely taking a lot of what he is learning out of context...

amother

Tan

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 9:50 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

That's what I have done. We arranged his rosh yashiva to speak and explain to my ds this whole concept. It did help.

keym

Tue, Aug 18 2020, 10:16 am

I consider this very 14.
Similar to a 14 yr old girl lecturing the family on proper clean up or deciding she knows better than the parents how to parent.
I do recommend ruling out religious OCD and making sure that his Rebbeim and friends are reasonable. If his Rebbi gives blistering shiurim on how Harry Potter is the source of all the evil in the world, of course he'll freak out if his brother is reading Harry Potter.
But other than that, nonconfrontational tone. We need to talk respectfully.
Dad's davening is between Dad and Hashem.
Mom and Dad decide what hechsherim we eat, books we read, clothing we wear. You are welcome to choose differently for yourself but not for others.

Also, don't engage and don't fight. If he only wants to eat a specific hechsher and you fight it, he'll just double down and become even more stubborn.