S/O Justifying Hitting

amother

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:29 am

The Poskim that allow hitting all say that it needs to come from a place of calm and not anger or impulse.
If a child has done wrong, and you took the time to calm down and think it through, you can always find a way to teach them a lesson through a different way. A consequence, a talking to, a penalty, a grounding etc.

Another point is that all chinuch experts today, say that hitting does not teach a child anything, other than that hitting is okay.

Why do some people justify hitting, as if hitting while calm is the norm? I have never heard of anyone thinking it through and after 5 minutes still feeling the need to hit.

Please justify it if you have any other experience

WhatFor

Sun, May 30 2021, 11:45 am

Some people are abusive so they get defensive when anyone calls them out on it.

Some people are enablers and they don't want to take responsibility so they keep convincing themselves it's okay.

Some people are not abusive but have been taught that hitting occasionally is okay and don't want to consider that they may have done something wrong and that there are better parenting strategies (although IMO the people vehemently defending hitting are probably abusive. Most people who lost themselves and hit and aren't abusive feel bad about it and try to figure out a better way to handle their children. They don't make hitting their hill to die on.)

Some people don't hit but they know people who hit who they respect and love. Perhaps they see things in black-and-white and can't compartmentalize that their idol could do something wrong. Therefore they keep defending it.

Rabbi/Dr Twersky explained in a book once how children need to be able to trust and rely that their parents can protect them. That means when a parent abuses them, it's worse for them psychologically to think that their parent is doing something wrong, because that would mean their parent can't keep them safe. They need to think that their parent is right. So if their parent hits them for no reason, they didn't do anything bad, they must be bad. This is a safer thought process than thinking their parent is wrong and what leads to low self esteem in abused children. So perhaps within that group, some people never outgrow this thought process that their parents were perfect.

I know you wrote about "hitting" not "abuse" but as I wrote before, if someone is twisting themselves into a pretzel to justify hitting defenseless children, hitting teenagers, and hitting adults until they're 22/23/24 whatever number, they're probably abusive.

amother

Brunette

Sun, May 30 2021, 12:17 pm

There are probably people who are oisgearbet enough that they can hit the right way, but I haven't come across them. I do, however, know people who use the term chinuch to justify hitting a teens in the face with a hanger etc.

I think that to prevent the latter, the very few people who can hit leshem chinuch shouldn't publicize it because it just has too much potential to be abused and then misused by abusers to justify their actions.

amother

White

Sun, May 30 2021, 12:30 pm

Growing up, my parents only hit if it was for something involving our safety to show the magnitude of what we were doing. If we played with fire or ran into the street, etc. It was never out of anger, always done calmly and my siblings and I never were “scarred” from it. We understood that what we did was dangerous and scary and we didn’t do it again. We didn’t grow up thinking it was ok to hit either

Not that I would necessarily do this with my own kids if I felt a different method would get the same point across, but DH and I are both on the same page that this is the only acceptable time to hit

I have seen some people hit, kick, pull hair, push, and pinch their kids. Always out of anger. Always breaks my heart.. these kids also always ended up becoming bullies and always resorted to physical violence. Really sad

nchr

Sun, May 30 2021, 3:33 pm

I'm going to come and say this under my username just in case it has any weight. I think it's easy to fall prey to the idea that hitting children is an important part of chinuch, especially if you were raised that way.

However, it is really not acceptable. Although I was lacking knowledge and insight at the time, I'm embarrassed that I ever defended it on this forum and I hope that I did not influence anyone to believe its acceptable.

amother

Sun, May 30 2021, 3:38 pm

nchr wrote:

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

amother

Lemon

Sun, May 30 2021, 3:44 pm

nchr wrote:

amother

Cobalt

Sun, May 30 2021, 6:16 pm

nchr wrote:

Wow! Thank you for sharing that! I'm really impressed that you were able to post this!

tp3

Mon, May 31 2021, 12:34 pm

nchr wrote:

Respect
(What made you change your mind???)

amother

Fuchsia

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 4:02 pm

People used to hit.

What replaces hitting? Parenting classes.

Life was simpler back during the time hitting was acceptable. Things were more black and white. People and societies had rules and expectations and it was clear when a child was acting out of line. Nowadays, everything is unclear. In my children's world there are multiple conflicting expectations from disparate people of authority and their lives are complex. Certainly a simple slap will make them more confused rather than simply shoving them back on track.

So nowadays we have parenting classes.

amother

Taupe

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 8:26 pm

nchr wrote:

The hug was from me. Because I love growing honest people like you!

nchr

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 10:26 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

What about for extreme disrespect/outright chutzpa, can it be justified to hit a younger child for such an infraction?

I think not. I think most children will regret having spoken disrespectfully. You're talking about little children so you can redirect. Say the sentence respectfully. Explain to them it wasn't a nice way to speak. You want respect and derech eretz to be an internal thing that the child feels because you want respect to be real and not fake. I find that whenever I felt something was chutzpah it was more my own triggers than reality. But as a disclaimer, it's not like I'm a parenting expert and I have more to learn than I know.

bigsis144

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 10:44 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

What would you say is the best way to handle it?

(a) deal with your own triggers and baggage so that you maintain self control. Don’t take it as a personal affront. Don’t go to a place of righteous fury. Don’t go to a panicked place of “oh god, I need to nip this in the bud NOW!! I gotta do something!!”

(b) decide if your child is in a receptive state of mind. If they made a joke that crossed a line but are otherwise in a normal mood, you can say something. But if they are already in a rage, coming down on them for chutzpah will just escalate the situation.

(c) from a place of compassion and respect for your child, try to separate their words/tone from what they’re actually trying to communicate. If they knew a better way to get what they wanted, they’d use it. They’re like a screaming, flailing baby. It doesn’t mean they should get what they want, but as the adult in the room you can choose to see it as a lagging skill rather than disrespect.

I have been practicing this for a very long time (I have an excellent therapist), and it’s still not easy. I have had to work very hard to separate my doing the “right thing” from the results.

And in no world can I believe that “the right thing” includes hitting my children.

Besides. It didn’t work when I used to do that. 😔

I like this way better, both for them and myself.

honeymoon

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 10:57 pm

nchr wrote:

Wow. You have my respect. Thumbs Up