Sleepovers | Imamother

amother

Lily

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 2:17 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My rabbi said I should only host girls if my husband isn't home. He also said sleepover for boys is no problem. I really don't think I can follow this. I feel like it's so extreme.

Send him away with the boys for a shabbos and have an all girls shabbos

amother

Watermelon

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 2:21 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

My rabbi said I should only host girls if my husband isn't home. He also said sleepover for boys is no problem. I really don't think I can follow this. I feel like it's so extreme.

It is very extreme. I would find another rav.
It's also not logical. If he is so worried, then boys are just as apt to fall prey to zxual abuse as girls. Why is it ok for boys and not for girls?

I am not saying sleepovers are 100% safe, but neither is crossing the street. You do your hishtadlut and hope for the best.
Some of my kids didn't like sleepovers, but some of them went to them all the time. And yes, I let them, older brothers or not. They had a ball and as others have said, it's a big part of childhood for some kids. All their friends go, and they will feel deprived if they don't. It's absolutely not fair.

If you live somewhere where half the kids don't go on sleepovers, that's something else. But I live in Israel and EVERYONE who wanted went, and it would be cruel to deny a child.

amother

Watermelon

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 2:28 am

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

No, I dislike sleepovers very much. I don’t understand why my child has to stay awake most of the night and barely function the next day. For what?? I encourage friendships and get togethers but sleeping in each other’s homes is completely not necessary.
.

I agree that kids return crazy and not functioning after a sleepover.
You may not understand the point of that. But the bonding that goes on during a sleepover is incredible.
It also depends on your circles. If all your dd's friends are getting together for a sleepover and she is the only one at home, going to sleep alone at 9 p.m., she is going to be miserable. If OTOH most of her friends are in the same boat, then it's not a big deal.

amother

Watermelon

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 2:30 am

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

Ouch. That’s hard. But if your husband doesn’t want it and your rabbi says not to, maybe it’s a sign it’s not the right thing to do… see if you can make your husband and your Creator happy by following your Rav and listening to your husband. It’s hard, but giving in is part of what builds relationships.

Maybe she will make her Creator happy by sticking up for her dd and her happiness. I note you don't mention the dd at all in your list of people to make happy.

essie14

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 2:39 am

I loved sleepovers as a child.
Our kids sleep over at homes where we know the parents and trust them.
I treat boys and girls equally.
Men and women can both be abusers. I don't understand sending your child to someone's home who you dont trust. You only mistrust the dad?
My kids all know about good touch and bad touch and that they can call us at any time if they feel uncomfortable.

amother

Watermelon

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 2:47 am

essie14 wrote:

Even if she only mistrusts the dad (and older brothers), then why assume they are pedophiles interested in girls rather than boys?

That's naive in this day and age. If you are going to assume someone is a pedophile in waiting, then you must at least realize pedophiles don't only target girls.

Teomima

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 3:52 am

Sure. Truthfully this isn't the sort of thing I'd even think about calling a Rav to consult about (I have no problems with people who feel differently, it just wouldn't even occur to me). As long as I know and trust the family, and my child knows they can always call me to come pick them up if they change their mind, then absolutely. I've also had other kids sleep over here.

amother

Watermelon

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 4:55 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I personally wouldn't leave any of my children, boy or girl alone with any adult that's not me, my spouse, and aunt or uncle of grandparent that I truly trust.

I've heard stories of parents driving their friends kids home, pulling over to the side somewhere, and abusing them.

I think there are more cases of uncles abusing a kid, than friends' parents pulling the carpool over to abuse a child. And yet you trust uncles. Why?

Horrible things can occur. But at some point you need to let your kids out in the world.

Are you saying you don't let your kids go out on any playdates? They never go to a friend's house, because they might be left in the room alone with an adult at some point?
IMO that's a lot more dangerous to a child than letting them go. Over-protection causes lots of problems (and I know this from my own childhood. Parents think that by overprotecting they are doing the best thing possible, but it's the exact opposite).

LovesHashem

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 5:47 am

amother [ Watermelon ] wrote:

I said selected relatives.

Of course I'd let my kids do playdates, go to camp, etc, but I wouldnt put them in a situation where they are left alone with another adult completely alone.

Raisin

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 5:55 am

Yes, I do.

Honestly, I think its more important to give your kids the tools to resist abuse and that ANYONE can be an abuser, no matter how charming and important, than to instill in them the idea that Chani's dad or Uncle Shmulli are completely trustworthy, therefore they can go there. Imagine if (shock, horror) your instincts are wrong and your close friend or bil turns out to be an abuser. Your kid will feel less able to turn to you.

Also boys can be abused so I don't get why letting boys go on sleepovers and not girls is ok.

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:00 am

It’s not just a problem of possible abuse ch”v. Two or three teenagers in a room late at night can get up to all sorts of things and discussions may well end up inappropriate. Many rabbonim and school leaders here have said that sleepovers should not happen. If a friend’s parents were going away and the friend needed a place to stay for a few nights, then fine. Otherwise best to avoid.

Chickensoupprof

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 6:09 am

I find the approach of the Rav very extreme. I know girls who are above bar mitzvah who live during the week in a house because they are living far away from the school because their parents do Kiruv or slichus. They live there during the week and the father is there. Sometimes there is a brother too. Also remember some people don't have frum cousins. Like my cousin is not even Jewish and the ones who are Jewish are not observant. I would love if I have children that friends or classmates will invite my children over because I don't have frum family myself. DH has, but I have had to adopt sisters.

About the abuse anxiety, it's indeed better to talk about safety and the like and body awarness all the time with the kids. A whole secret culture on someone's body, and the like is something abusers love. Because they can groom a kid saying ' you are not allowed to tell this because your sisters will not get married because I'm doing X and Y to you' 'You are not tznius if you tell it your parents will be upset you will end up in hell and never can go to shul and school!' 'The Torah tells that speaking badly about someone is lashon hara, you don't want to get punished because you will tell our little secret'... Or 'You know shomer negiah is halacha and you are not following it either you are as bad!' This is how abusers work!!!

TEACH YOUR CHILDREN FROM YOUNG AGE, without any secrets without anything else explain everything it's a total lie that teaching your kids about boundaries, s-x and the like (age appropriate), will lead to sin... It's protecting (I look for the source it has been researched...

Oh and this watch this place.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 8:31 am

LovesHashem wrote:

I said selected relatives.

Of course I'd let my kids do playdates, go to camp, etc, but I wouldnt put them in a situation where they are left alone with another adult completely alone.

At a sleep over no kid is alone with an adult, by pure definition of the word dleepover, there will always be at least 2 kids. Your kid will never be alone with an adult. 🤔

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 8:35 am

s1 wrote:

I believe this may only be teue in the same communities where there is a strong separate gendered everything.
I have never heard this in my community.
And getting up to no good or inappropriate talk? Things can happen also not during a sleep over. And they do. And many kids are good kids as well.
We just have to teach our children about what is right snd wtong and go from there.

Raisin

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 10:06 am

[quote="Chickensoupprof"]I find the approach of the Rav very extreme. I know girls who are above bar mitzvah who live during the week in a house because they are living far away from the school because their parents do Kiruv or slichus. They live there during the week and the father is there. Sometimes there is a brother too. Also remember some people don't have frum cousins. Like my cousin is not even Jewish and the ones who are Jewish are not observant. I would love if I have children that friends or classmates will invite my children over because I don't have frum family myself. DH has, but I have had to adopt sisters.

No shluchim will send their girls to board in a house with older boys.

Sunny Days

Wed, Jul 28 2021, 10:45 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Mouths tend to be looser at 3 am (especially after lots of candy) plus when things are cozy and quiet...