S/O OOT- What is a 'Harry'?

avocadotoast

Mon, Feb 20 2023, 8:44 pm

Harry is usually referring someone who is very frum and torahdig in a sincere way but is “flip-out-ish” and doesn’t care and/or know to abide by the nuances of Yeshiva culture thereby can be looked at as nerdy by mainstream Yeshiva culture. This can be in the way he pronounces certain words, to dress, to conduct…

zaq

Mon, Feb 20 2023, 8:45 pm

AIUI, it's a guy who tries to be yeshivish but really isn't, so he does things just a little bit differently, like wear a different type of hat than the one the Lakewood crowd is wearing, or wear on Shabbat the type of white shirt the Lakewood crowd wears during the week. Just different enough that an insider would know he's "not from around here, are you?"

FWIW I find this term repulsive and showing a severe lack of k'vod habriyot and Ahavat Yisrael.

sushilover

Mon, Feb 20 2023, 8:59 pm

I've only heard it to refer to someone who is very frum and sincere but also extremely Americanized. Speaks a few words of Yiddish or Hebrew with a strong American accent, has a strong American mentality. Doesn't use the typical frum slang, jargon, or even the common frum grammatical errors. Hard to describe.

Not nerdy. It's not really a negative term.

rachelbg

Mon, Feb 20 2023, 9:10 pm

avocadotoast wrote:

So basically name calling to put one’s self up on a ‘frum’ pedestal…
I’m happier to be a “Harry” than someone who calls other Yidden names.
One of the reasons we are proud to be bnei Torah who “don’t care to abide by nuances of Yeshivish culture.”

estherj

Mon, Feb 20 2023, 9:47 pm

If is used extensively in mesivta and yeshivas. “Don’t pronounce it like a Harry”

One of my sons friends overheard a group of Americanized guys learning the Gemara Yevamos dealing with complicated intertwined familial relationships. One of the guys explained to his friends “Take the Brady Bunch for example. If Graig were to marry Marsha and Cindi and then….”

That is what the boys would call “Harryish”.

BrisketBoss

Mon, Feb 20 2023, 9:51 pm

estherj wrote:

Interesting. I was going to say that all of my friends in college brought in pop culture references to their Jewish learning because it's fun and nerdy (regular definition of nerdy, not in-town frum one), but they probably wouldn't use the Brady Bunch because they're my age. But I do know of some frum families who only let their kids watch the old shows since they're more wholesome. So I guess your mashal could be some weird mixture of very frum but not frum enough.

pinkpeonies

Mon, Feb 20 2023, 10:03 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

It’s not really a measurement of Frumkeit though, as others said, it’s very much to do with how American you are, but also how in tune you are with frum culture
So a more Hungarian person wouldn’t be a Harry, someone who’s been in America for generations, less so. But, someone who’s very American but also very in tune with frum culture wouldn’t be a Harry

ruchelbuckle

Mon, Feb 20 2023, 10:39 pm

My teenagers (who think they know everything) say that a Harry is a person who is not really in tune with mainstream yeshivish culture. They happen to attend very "in-town" yeshivas and camps, even though we live in a tiny little hick out of town city. Every time they come home for an off shabbos, they complain, "OMG, this place has the biggest bunch of Harrys."

It could be in reference to clothes, lifestyle, or geographic areas. One of my boys often mentions a certain area in the Tri-State area that he feels, even though is, in town "is full of Harrys" because the people "pretend" to be yeshivish (whatever that means!) .

I told you that my teens know EVERYTHING. It wasnt me

Obviously, he is a teenager, so take what he says with a few grains of salt, but that's the general idea.

hotpretzel

Mon, Feb 20 2023, 10:52 pm

rachelbg wrote:

Its disgusting, and they think they are better then them because they are wearing the "right shirt" or pronouncing things "the right way"
Ive even heard people say "he seemed normal until he opened his mouth, I hadnt realized he was a Harry" or "with that shirt I could tell he was a Harry from a mile away

pinkpeonies

Mon, Feb 20 2023, 11:16 pm

hotpretzel wrote:

Just reminding you that imas here were providing a definition, not espousing their own beliefs

seven-up

Tue, Feb 21 2023, 9:03 am

It describes someone culturally, not how frum they are. A guy can be a harry and daven three times a day with a minyan, learn for hours each day and be midakdieik in halacha while someone can be heimish and miss minyanim, learning and be looser with halacha. Essentially a harry describes a man who:

1. does not have a yeshivish/heimish background

2. pronounces english words similar to secular people and with real american inflections and pronounces hebrew words with a more israeli havara despite being fully american- doesn't necessarily mispronounce or just doesn't use the mainstream yeshivish or heimish American hebrew

3. tries to dress yeshivish but is off with it in some way

4. uses more American terminology when talking to other frum people like Thank G-d instead of boruch Hashem, father in law instead of shver, bless you instead of gezundheit or my mom may she be well instead of my mother zol zein gezunt un shtark

These are just some examples.

When I used to work in a frum office I could usually tell if a caller on the phone was a harry or not, just like I could tell if someone was Israeli, Russian or Chasidish for example. It's derogatory in my opinion but just as the term "yeshivish" describes one type, and the term "chasidish" describes another type, the term "harry" also describes a type.

I think "harry" is used because the person's demeanor and mannerisms are more like a "harry" (a secular name) than a "yanky". I do not condone the use of the word, just describing what it means in detail according to my understanding. Stressing again that it has nothing to do with a person's level of frumkeit!

Highstrung

Tue, Feb 21 2023, 9:07 am

My DS says “Never judge a Harry until you walk in his Shabbos sneakers”

I’ve never heard of this term in my life until my kids attended certain yeshivas.

My kids refer to me as “Harry” or that I’m “Harryish”. I know what they mean. They don’t mean it in a derogatory way. I happen to not care about certain nuances even though I’m not from OOT. But I do stand out because of it.

Highstrung

Tue, Feb 21 2023, 9:19 am

notshanarishona wrote:

A nerd

I don’t think this is correct.
It more like a very American,ehrlich frum jew who’s very temimsdig and doesn’t care about the external nuances or gashmius meshugasin and fashion, and may stand out because of that.
They also don’t use heimish English .