16 year old DD bought herself a smartphone

amother

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 3:12 am

Some background. She has been in the top BY schools all her life, has ADHD. Struggled with behavior and social issues but did much better once she started meds in 7th grade.

This year, 10th grade, things started going off. She is bouncing around with different crowds, not so interested in tznius rules or other rules. We have been considering switching her school, she has gotten into lots of trouble this year.

We have an excellent relationship, also with DH.

She has been asking for screen time, which I agreed to with rules.

Yesterday she bought the smartphone and had a "meeting" with me and DH because she wants to be open about it.

She is not interested in having a filter or limited hours. This is some kind of independence play, and she wants to be able to make the decisions that if things are no good, she will reject them herself.

What would you do?

Please don't recommend any chinuch experts. I have plenty to speak to.

Right now, I am interested in gathering perspectives to inform how I will handle this.

LovesHashem

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 3:17 am

16 is a big girl. I would make house rules about where she can and can't use the phone. No phones at mealtimes etc but besides that she's just gotta make her own mistakes. There's nothing you can do except say thank you for being open with us, I love that you feel comfortable and safe talking to us and we're here for you always.

If she comes across bad stuff online, gets addicted, etc and is self aware at some point to realize she's unhappy she will be comfortable asking you for help. That's huge. Many parents do not have that.

amother

Amaranthus

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 4:21 am

My son bought a phone and his it from us. It was the beginning of the end
I hate the stupid things!!

Frumwithallergies

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 4:55 am

Much of her use will be harmless, I expect, as it is for those of us adults with unfiltered smartphones.

However, teen girls exposed to Insta and snap chat have higher rates of anxiety sometimes; and then there is the possibility of falling prey to someone who asks her to take intimate pictures of herself --- she doesn't yet have any schooling in 'smartphone safety'. MO schools offer these types of classes (at least my kids' school does).

OP, it is not all bad. Definitely work on setting boundaries.

amother

Seablue

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 5:01 am

Just this week Dr Becky of Good Inside (you can find the podcast wherever you find podcasts) interviewed a psychologist who is an expert with teens. They spoke about phone useable.
She mentioned 2 important rules :
1. No phone in the teens bedroom at all.
2. No phone access during the hours when the teen is supposed to be sleeping.

She also discussed ways to talk to your teens about the stuff they do on the phone so that the teen will feel understood and more likely to corporate. It’s really worth listening to that podcast sooner rather than later to set the ground rules.

Rappel

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 5:09 am

It's great that she wants to be open with you.

Maybe suggest some digital health training/education, so she doesn't fall down the rabbit hole that a lot of us meet on the way?

She should know what an internet scam looks like, how to identify/avoid online predators, what internet bullying looks like and how to deal with it, how to self-identify anxiety/depression stemming from internet overuse, and what mature and responsible use of internet looks like. Also, that the algorithms designed to feed her interesting content also skew toward extremism and closed ivory towers.

Did I miss anything?

Alternative

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 5:36 am

amother Seablue wrote:

It’s going to be really hard, if not impossible, to set such rules with a 16 yr old who is already independent and rebellious enough to buy her own phone.
She can suggest it but I wouldn’t start a battle that cannot be won. Every teen I know with a phone takes it to their room (granted I am from different circles).
I would teach her all about internet safety and the risks of sharing info or compromising pics online. Including real life stories. She needs to go in with her eyes open. Most kids I know have been getting the talk from age 12, at home and at school.

amother

Brass

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 5:58 am

It is good she is sharing it with you, that is already great parenting.

I agree on house rules for phone use - these are not rules on her phone or rules on her, but rules of behavior in the house. You should be prepared to follow them too, as the point isn't to single her out and make her retreat, but there are rules for everyone and this also has you modeling good behavior with your phones for her to see. You and DH should get on the same page about what the rules should be, and then meet with DD about them.

You should also have a separate and very open talk with her about internet safety, as well as social media safety (including things like connection requests from strangers, among many other topics):

- This should cover actual safety about communicating with strangers, online bullying/stalking (both directed towards her and these from her to others), online purchasing, identity theft (giving out personal info like name or phone number or address or even her city or pictures, never sharing credit card or bank info), and more (please consult someone knowledgeable or online resources about what this should include).

- Never taking untznius or otherwise inappropriate pictures/videos/audio recordings of herself on her phone even if she doesn't plan to share them ever, as these things can accidentally get around with disastrous consequences.

- Also, don't assume that just because DD is a nice girl and treats everyone nicely, that this means she will always be nice online. Talk about not bullying or stalking others, as well as not leaving mean comments on others content - people often don't think twice about leaving a not so nice comment because it is so anonymous, and don't realize they are being mean, so make sure you outline clearly how to behave nicely and how not to behave meanly online, even if you think she already knows (just think about how people sometimes write on this site, I'm sure they are all perfectly nice people, just sometimes people don't realize how things come off online, which is why it should be discussed). The rule of thumb is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything.

- Also talk to her about illegal or even seemingly legal content - both downloading and streaming, such as TV, movies, and music that isn't paid for through the appropriate channels (and never pay through somewhere as many places are not valid and can steal your information) - not everything that is easy to access is legal - this can be real stealing and is a halalchic issue as well. Don't assume that just because you don't have a TV or she doesn't listen to secular music or that she is bais yaakov that this isn't an issue. She can find it and access it just like anyone. Plus, there is plenty of Jewish music and other kosher content available online for free or paid that doesn't give appropriate payment to the Jewish singers/producers and this could be a halachic issue as well.

- The talk should also include what she should do if she does come across something that makes her uncomfortable or scared, whether from another person or just something online. Explain what kinds of things these might include, such as p*ornography in both picture and video format, s*xually inappropriate or explicit content she reads or pictures or videos (even if not p*orn), other inappropriate content like people dressed really inappropriately or behaving really inappropriate, violent content including pictures and videos and things she reads, bad language including curse words in writing or pictures or videos, bullying or stalking or requests for personal information or financial information or to meet from strangers. You should make it clear that if she comes across or experiences any of the above, that she should come and tell you and you will make sure to create a safe space for her to share it with you without getting angry. And if she does tell you, consider having professionals lined up to help her process and handle whatever she has experienced.

- You may want to have rules about social media, either not allowed or specific rules about which ones or their use, it may depend if your dd is on them already. Talk openly about this with her and come to rules and conclusions together, because she could easily do it behind your back and you want to be aware. Some parents have their kids social media logins, see if dd will agree, but don't force it because you don't want her to hide it. You can also ask if you can have her usernames, not to sign in but just to be able to see her accounts, but don't force it - lots of kids these days make clean dummy accounts they give to their parents and have real accounts otherwise which their parents don't know about. So agreeing on her access and your access should be a joint discussion at her age. Also discuss responsible posting, that what goes on the internet can be forever even if removed so she should think twice before posting something she is writing (even a blog) or pictures or videos. And that her comments to others should always be nice and respectful. Again, if she doesn't have anything nice to say, she shouldn't say anything at all.

Don't think that because she is a BY girl that she shouldn't come across or be talked to about p*orn or illegal TV shows, and other difficult things - too many kids fall into this because no one talked to them about it (I have discussed it starting at age 9, they need to know well before they come across it by accident). Talking, not just once up front, but periodically, can prevent a lot of this or keep an opening for her to come to you. I recommend reviewing once every month or few months, whatever you think is appropriate, but at least once every 3 months.

This list is not exhaustive, please find some real guides or professionals to explain to you what needs to be discussed, as I don't even know if I am up to date.

Good luck and keep that communication open! You must be wonderful parents to have such a good and open relationship with her.

amother

Cadetblue

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 8:14 am

It sounds like the source of the problem is her crowd. If you can somehow get her away from these girls, that would be the way to change things IMHO. Does she have any relationships with teachers or mentors? That would be another good thing to try.

amother

Amethyst

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 8:48 am

amother Seablue wrote:

I'd rather have the teen use the phone in her bedroom only, than around the house & other kids. I can't see how a rebellious teen than bought herself a smartphone, will not use it in her room.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 9:57 am

Question, does she have regular income enough to pay monthly for a phone?

It is pretty common for teens this age to buy themselves a smartphone and either hide it, or not.

I am of the opinion that she still needs to follow rules even though she wants to be independent. All teens want to be independent but we don't just throw up our hands and say sure no problem.

You have a good relationship which is huge. You have something to stand on. A basic filter, parental controls is a must. Explain to her that because of predators, viruses, and other nasty people out there, you must turn on parental controls. That doesn't mean limiting screentime, it's limiting explicit images, addictive games, chatrooms, etc.

My son the same age wanted a smartphone very badly. Yeshiva rule is no smartphones and I am a rule follower while he is not. I know that the other boys in yeshiva have one but they hide it. So we discussed it, why he wants it, what does he want to do with it, which apps he wants. I decided to buy him am old refurbished iPhone which works great. I insisted on paying for it because I know and he knows, if I pay it's really mine, and if he pays it's really his. He agreed, and I pay for the plan too. He's in yeshiva, not supposed to be looking for ways to earn money to support his phone usage.

I cannot stress enough that you must turn on parental controls. An unfiltered smartphone is dangerous for anyone, and of course a child. If she was 18 it would be different. 16 is not 18, and I told this to my son as well, that you will not like what I'm saying but it's a fact.

I suggest you talk to her more about why she bought the phone and what she plans to use it for. Is she feeling peer pressure from her friends. Does she want snapchat to be involved socially. What music is she looking for. Are there chat groups she's missing out on. Understand her and you will give her an opening to understand you.

Good luck.

little neshamala

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 10:22 am

OP, would she be willing to have Kaspersky Safe Kids installed on her phone- you can leave all the filtering options open, so it essentially would allow her full access like she wants, but you as her parent would get a detailed report of every site she visited, as detailed as which youtube video she watched.
Its about $15 per year I think...

PinkFridge

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 10:59 am

Hatzlacha. In dealing with this, in finding an educational framework where she'll flourish and shine, and in keeping up this great relationship.
Focus on the safety. Not the frumkeit but the safety issues so well brought up here. She's already 16 but she's also only 16 and it's perfectly legitimate for you to approach things as such.

mha3484

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:01 am

There is a social psychologist named Jonathan Haidt who talks a lot about how toxic Instagram is for teen girls. At 16 she may find it interesting. You can google him he has tons of articles about it. Sometime when it doesnt come from the parent it makes more of an impact.

PinkFridge

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:06 am

mha3484 wrote:

I heard him speak. Good stuff.
This is all information OP can present as just such: information for her to make informed decisions.
Right now she's not in a place where she's necessarily thinking of a rosy future but she should be thinking about dreams and what and who she wants to be. How she uses the phone shouldn't mess up those dreams.

amother

Raspberry

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:32 am

Frumwithallergies wrote:

Am I missing something?

Harmless to be without a filter.

Its like a loaded gun in your house.

Course you would never do anything with it, but would you keep it in your house??

Im sorry op this is off topic.
I wish you hatzlocho with your daughter.
Its a hard one.
Its good you have chinuch experts involved.

giftedmom

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:36 am

I’m assuming she’s paying for the phone plan herself? How does she earn the money? If she’s using WiFi that’s still in your control.
Otherwise, educate her on safety as others mentioned. Especially if she’s still sheltered and doesn’t know the dangers of chatting with strangers, sharing pics etc.
keep a close watch on things but discreetly. And keep the lines of communication open.
Oh and if you have younger kids at home ask her to please keep it out of their reach and use a password.

amother

Goldenrod

Fri, Mar 10 2023, 11:39 am

Adding to my post above, I also want to emphasize the issue of trust. You should make a big deal about the fact that she isn't hiding it, and she is open with you about buying it, and how mature she is for calling a meeting with her parents to discuss it.

The key words are trust and maturity. Tell her that she is so mature, validate her feelings of readiness to be independent, tell her you trust her so much because she isn't hiding anything, and because you have a good relationship. Bring examples from the past of her being mature, trustworthy, and her making good decisions.

Often when we tell children positive things about themselves, it reinforces those positive character traits. You want to bring out that sense of maturity and trustworthiness from within her.

And still... parental controls. Not because she isn't trustworthy but because of the other people online that are not.

amother

Sun, Mar 12 2023, 12:18 am

Thank you for all of these incredible comments and taking the time to put your thoughts into words. It gives me tremendous chizzuk as I decide how to go forward.

amother

Snowdrop

Sun, Mar 12 2023, 12:35 am

I'm not sure what you can do about it but for two of my children getting a phone was the beginning of the end.

I would do whatever I could no matter what it took for her not to have the phone at all but in the very least for it to have a strong filter and a way for you to monitor what she is doing on it.

Someone here compared it to a loaded gun. It literally is. It killed two of my children's neshamos. They are completely different people (in a very bad way) than they were before they got the phones.

(They also both fell prey to scams, met very unsavory people, shared things they shouldn't have, were negatively affected socially etc. etc. etc.)