S/O teenagers raising younger siblings

amother

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 12:17 pm

Just wondering people's feelings on this:

Per the other thread, lots of imas here are VERY against a parent keeping a teenage daughter home from school to watch a younger sibling, help with shabbos/Y"T etc. And I agree with that feeling.

How about the teenager misses no school, but has a lot of responsibility caring for new babies. Like she is the one who has to get up at night to take care of a crying baby, etc. (I think the new baby actually sleeps in her room.) I know someone who had a LOT of kids and the oldest girl (or perhaps oldest 2) were given just such responsibilities. AFAIK they did not miss school, but they had responsibilities that I thought were outrageous for a teenager, and a young teenager at that. But it was all treated so normally. Their relatives thought it was cool.
I dont know if context is important but this was a generation ago in Israel in the Old City I think.

amother

Firethorn

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 12:20 pm

It is not right and it is called parentification when a sibling is required to render more than casual help with a sibling.

If the parents are unable to provide appropriate care to their children, they should not have them and not make older daughters - because it is generally the daughters - become parents at the expense of their lives.

Chayalle

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 12:24 pm

That's totally crazy IMVHO.
Some time ago I was involved with a family that has alot of dysfunction, and the mother had a new baby. She told me that her husband thinks their teen should be taking a turn getting up for the baby at night, but she doesn't think that's right. I validated that very appropriate thought, that yes, the baby is hers and her husbands, not her teen who will BEH have her turn one day with nighttime feedings, and I was glad she was sticking up for her daughter.

amother

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 12:30 pm

Chayalle wrote:

In this case, the teenager wasnt taking her turn, all the turns were hers! AFAIK she didnt mind doing this but I dont think that should make a difference.
Of course this was a generation ago, where using bc especially in those circles would have been totally taboo, but I dont know if that would have made a difference. I think the mother wanted a big family and would have had it even if the bc option was there.

Chayalle

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 12:35 pm

amother OP wrote:

I think also expectations and lifestyles have changed....I mean, my grandmother, she should live to 120, never went to a Jewish school. She did have a public school education, but I don't think that was valued so much for a girl when she grew up - it was compulsory, so she attended. But at home, she learned to sew (on a professional level, BTW) and embroider (same) and Kasher chickens (the Viznitzer Rebbe ate in her home after observing her) and cook and clean....everything needed to marry and raise a family. She laughs at my BY education that is so comprehensive but includes little of what she values and considers to be important.

But our kids are growing up today, here, and not in the shtetl. Times have changed.

amother

Amaranthus

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 12:39 pm

Insanity. Must be nice not carrying the load of life and dumping it on your kids. I cannot relate or begin to understand. My kids help with age appropriate chores but it adds up to so little. Like cleaning their rooms, helping with groceries, maybe watching kids in the yard for a bit. But more than that is just insane.

amother

Starflower

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 12:48 pm

I think kids were adults much younger than nowadays. Most "teens" went to work and had to contribute financially to the running of the household!
This new phenomenon of being a "teenager" with very few responsibilities for years and years is a new concept!
I'm not sure that it's to our kids advantage.
Teenagers should definitely not raise their siblings but I don't see a problem with helping in running the household! (loading the dishwashers or sweeping....)

observer

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 12:52 pm

You can't compare last generation in the Old city.
That story is not normal and I don't know anyone irl who would do that.

The mother and father are the parents. Kids can help in age appropriate ways, they will iyh have their chance to wake up at night with babies when they have their own babies.

amother

Lightpink

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 12:56 pm

This is all crazy to me and these threads are so bizarre. People moving goalposts all over the place and twisting themselves into pretzels to justify pawning off their and their husband's basic mundane responsibilities on their kids.

amother

Bellflower

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 1:02 pm

No. A kid and teen should do a certain amount of "chores" without pay as being part of the household. I personally feel 30 min a day of chores is a good amount, I wouldn't call it abusive if it's 1 hour/day as long as the teen doesn't miss school, has time to sleep, shower, some down time, etc. There's nothing wrong with having the 10 year old boy do dishes, take out trash and set the table, and have the 14 year old girl's chores be babysitting type tasks like bathe the 2 year old, but it should be the same amount of time.

If you want a babysitter past that certain amount of chore time that all the kids do, then you need to ask DD if she WANTS to do it for PAY. If so, there's nothing wrong with paying her just as you would an outside babysitter, in fact, it's better because not only is it more convienient for her (no transport time), but your money is kept within the family. So it's not necessarily a problem that DD babysits her siblings from 4 pm - 8 pm every weekday, but she needs to be getting paid, and she needs to be able to quit if she wants (should give proper notice, not spring it on you last minute)...

Same thing if you have a family business. For example, if it's a store, there's nothing wrong with offering teen DD a part-time job as a cashier, and paying as you would any other cashier.

amother

Teal

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 1:17 pm

I think we can universally agree this is not ok. Any chore that effects your child's sleep is an automatic no (well maybe the night before pesach Wink

)

I have to wonder why you decided to post this as it's an old story & not ongoing or prevalent. Just to stir the pot or is this your personal experience & want insight?

amother

Vermilion

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 2:06 pm

My teen daughter goes to sleep much later than me on Friday and Motzei Shabbos. She offered to hang out in the living room with my newborn for the first feeding. When the baby woke, she bottle fed the baby and put him back to sleep in my room. I really appreciated this and it was great to get 5 hours of uninterrupted sleep!

I would’ve never asked her to do it, but she offered (begged me as she loves newborns!)

She does sleep in on Shabbos and Sunday, so I didn’t feel guilty about her going to sleep late because of the baby.

Chayalle

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 2:57 pm

amother Starflower wrote:

I agree with teens helping at home, because it develops maturity and responsibility and prepares them for the future.
I don't believe in having them help because I need it to run the household. Because the minute that happens, our kids start absorbing unhealthy stress/parentification which is not what it's about.

#BestBubby

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 3:30 pm

Mothers DO need help, can be kids, can be hired help.

I think it is good for kids to feel that their help is
Needed.

As long as the amount is not excessive, nothing wrong
With telling kids everyone NEEDS to help.

Not fair to expect parents to be kids slaves.

#BestBubby

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 3:38 pm

In my opinion, girls should help 30 - 45 minutes on a school night.

And 60 - 90 minutes on erev shobbos/yt.

Boys who come home late, should do 15 minutes on school night.

And 60-90 minutes on erev shobbos/yt assuming they finish around noon or are off.

amother

Thu, Mar 23 2023, 5:28 pm

amother Teal wrote:

I think we can universally agree this is not ok. Any chore that effects your child's sleep is an automatic no (well maybe the night before pesach Wink

)

I have to wonder why you decided to post this as it's an old story & not ongoing or prevalent. Just to stir the pot or is this your personal experience & want insight?

The family under discussion are the first cousins of my first cousins. Their parents are American. My sister and I always thought this was insane but whenever the topic was raised (not often, but it was raised especially when we went to visit) there was always this subtle underlying, "look how much she does without complaining, and she is younger than you." Like how can you complain about anything I ask you to do when you see what she does, and does seemingly happily..etc.. I never discussed with anyone else before, but the topic on teenagers missing school brought it to mind.

amother

Begonia

Fri, Mar 24 2023, 12:15 am

I think there is a healthy medium that many need to achieve and that is teaching kids to be helpful and gain beautiful positive feelings from learning life skills and basic housekeeping skills while at the same time not burdening them and not allowing them to be the mommy.

Definitely my struggle. I'm a recovering parentified child and raising my kids now is hell because I already did this all my childhood and now I'm drained to my marrow.

amother

Mauve

Fri, Mar 24 2023, 1:48 am

amother Begonia wrote:

Agree, I also think it depends on the child
I felt overworked but my mother just said I work less hard than her friends daughter
Possibly true but my capabilities then were less
It wasn't healthy, and my help wasn't appreciated
It was expected and she resented that I didn't help more than I could