So much guilt about daycare

amother

Vanilla

Tue, May 23 2023, 9:03 pm

amother Blushpink wrote:

Idk I send to a non Jewish daycare. There’s no Shabbos or Yt for these teachers to prepare and most don’t have little kids at home to go home to after. Not saying they’re perfect.. but they def have energy. They also frequently give the teachers breaks rotate them etc during the day.

I have nothing against sending children to daycare or the fact that you need to send for such long hours, but does it not bother you that she's spending close to 80% of her waking hours in a non-Jewish environment?

amother

Begonia

Tue, May 23 2023, 9:07 pm

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

Begonia - do you think that a woman should not work full time (during the day) because a child being at home with mom is better than high quality daycare? Its fairly obvious that Zinnia thinks that daycare is undesirable.

Yes, I personally think so. To be home with your littles at the formative years is priceless. I have personally made career and lifestyle changes to be able to be home with them as much as possible.

amother

Blushpink

Wed, May 24 2023, 8:11 am

amother Vanilla wrote:

There are tons of frum kids there and she’s so little that no it doesn’t bother me right now. She is totally not aware if it’s Jewish vs non Jewish. At one point almost half her class was Jewish!

amother

Bluebonnet

Wed, May 24 2023, 8:26 am

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

I think that ideally, children belong at home.

If you must place them in childcare, do so but just remember that you're the best caregiver and don't overdo it just for convenience.

There is a difference between sending a child to daycare due to work circumstances or because you feel that your child is bothering you at home from doing housework.

amother

Zinnia

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:19 am

amother Butterscotch wrote:

Obviously I’m talking about daycare as well but am referring to the numerous posts that keep the focus on ‘home with parent is best’ My point. Is that that conversation may be ‘ideal’ but more many is not realistic. My point is that those who can work part time, work from
Home or not work at all the true privileged ones.

It is best. Full stop.

I know and understand that it is not realistic but it IS still best (unless parent is incapable of semi-decent parenting). This needs to be said. We need to be talking about it. Because otherwise nothing will ever change. The first step to solving problems is to recognize them.

Yes I understand, I am also a working mother and I work far more hours than is good for me or my family, because that's the only way to make ends meet.

I don't understand why you are denying your own privilege to claim that others are more privileged. I feel where you are coming from but it really isn't relevant to this discussion.

Daycare is a reality for most people's children (far too often for reasons beyond the parents' control), and it is not a healthy reality for the majority of those children.

Let's start talking about it, and start talking about how we can make it possible for more children to stay home with their parents, so that only the ones who NEED to go to daycare actually have to go. (This will also make it easier to have high-quality daycares which offer more benefit at less cost/harm to the child, because we will be able to raise the bar for childcare providers, make classes much smaller, and offer more subsidies to families which need daycare.)

amother

Zinnia

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:21 am

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

I'm disagreeing with your blanket statement 'daycare causes damage' (paraphrased).

Daycare has negative effects on children, all children, full stop. In the rare high-quality daycare and when the children don't spend far too many hours each week in the daycare setting, the negative effects of daycare are minimal and there is clear positive gain for the children. Those daycares are few and far between.

For most children the negative effects are clear, and for a great many they are very pronounced as well...and the positives are barely-there to nonexistent. (And if you tell me daycare raises children's grades, that "advantage" disappears across the board by grade 3, leaving only the disadvantages in place.)

amother

Zinnia

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:24 am

amother Begonia wrote:

Zinnia, how would you compare high quality daycare to being home with mom?
Which would be your preference?

I'm not sure. Because when it comes to high-quality (true high-quality) daycare and only for a few hours a week, the research is really split. (Less split when the hours go overboard, at that point it is clear that home with a parent is better but it's not by sooo much if the center is truly high-quality.)

But as there are no licensed or unlicensed high-quality daycares where I live, it's not really a question I've put too much thought into. Smile

I like to be practical and focus on relevant issues. Wink

Do you have such a daycare where you live? How old is your child? How many hours a week would you be sending for? Have you visited the center and if so what does your gut say? Are they flexible and willing to tell you if your child isn't himself/herself and work with you to make things work for your child? (Are they flexible with mealtimes, naptimes, how do they handle hitting, etc. etc.)

amother

Butterscotch

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:26 am

amother Zinnia wrote:

Where are you seeing me deny my privilege?

But I don’t what talking about ‘it’ will do. I don’t set real estate prices. Or tuition prices. Or make social policy.

amother

Zinnia

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:28 am

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

Yes I think daycare is undesirable. I think it is an undesirable and unfortunate part of today's reality and I would like as many eyes open to this fact as possible so that we can work - as a society - on making the situation better in the future, so that parents have more options (which will also increase daycare centers' quality because less children will need to attend childcare).

Oh and something else. I am not for women specifically not working full-time during the day. Unless the baby is nursing (under age 6 months) baby doesn't really need mom instead of dad, and if mom can pump well there you go. Babies DO need a constant, dependable, familiar, loving, reliable caregiver who can provide 1:1 care (best) or 1:2-3 care for the young child and a (usually older) sibling. So if grandma lives with the family then grandma can be that provider and both parents can work. So long as grandma is a constant figure in the child's life, all's well. So long as the setup works for both parents it doesn't matter which parent is primary breadwinner and which stays home to take care of the child (or works from home to take care of the child).

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:32 am

amother Zinnia wrote:

Babies stop nursing at 6 months?

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:33 am

amother Zinnia wrote:

There is zero evidence for your bolded claim. You just don't like the idea of daycare.

amother

Zinnia

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:36 am

amother Butterscotch wrote:

Where are you seeing me deny my privilege?

But I don’t what talking about ‘it’ will do. I don’t set real estate prices. Or tuition prices. Or make social policy.

So why are you talking about everyone else's privilege?

Of course you don't set policies or prices, but absolutely nothing can change so long as we keep insisting that daycare is just fine and equal to mom or better than mom if mom isn't paying 100% attention at least 95% of the time.

Think about it, how did women get the right to vote? Enough women realized it was possible and started talking and putting their feet down. Why do we know that breastmilk is superior to formula? Because people started talking about it. I could go on and on.

Talk. Insist. Discuss. Think outside the box. Gossip about how much the two-income requirement is awful for families. About how much we need policy changes. About how detrimental it is for kids and moms that maternity leave in the US is nonexistent and anyone lucky might get FMLA. Talk about how unfair it is to women that they can be fired freely during pregnancy when they obviously won't find another job until after the baby is born. TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS.

Admit the problems. And get everyone around you to start talking as well. Post on imamother, post on Facebook, talk to random people about it, talk to your school principal and to the clerk at the social security office and to whoever. Send emails to your elected politicians. And just keep talking and getting people to talk, keep complaining and getting people to complain, talk about the research and how trauma shapes young children's brains....forever.

One day someone in power will hear and act. One day someone wanting to be elected will make a promise that brings this to the forefront.

Israel is promising free daycare for 0-3yos, how do you think they got there? Because parents complain! If parents had complained about having to send to daycare, as vocally as they complained about daycare prices? Imagine what might happen then.

That is the point. Change is slow but that is okay, we are in this for the long run, we are in this parenting thing for our kids and their futures, we can start the process in slow motion now and pray that it speeds up before our kids have their own kids.

Heart

amother

Zinnia

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:40 am

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

There is zero evidence for your bolded claim. You just don't like the idea of daycare.

Actually I did and do. When we got married I was totally pro-daycare and it was obvious that I'd even cut maternity leave short to go back to work so that I'd be productive and happier.

DH almost broke our engagement over this. LOL

But he took a deep breath and showed me some research that got me started digging for more information on the subject. And eventually I grudgingly admitted that I was wrong and he was right and understood that unless it were an issue of putting food on the table, I could not, in good conscience, choose to send to daycare.

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:44 am

amother Zinnia wrote:

How could you now like the idea of daycare if daycare has negative effects on all children?

amother

Butterscotch

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:44 am

amother Zinnia wrote:

Admitting my privilege while acknowledging the privilege of others doesn’t negate my privilege. And yes I think anyone who has a flexible schedule, can work remotely, can work part time or work not at all is privileged. I don’t have a monopoly on privilege.