Should a 4 y/o understand the concept of milchigs/fleishigs

Success10

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 3:57 am

It really really depends on the kid. Their individual personality type or possibly if they have older siblings. There's no one right answer for this. Some kids can't grasp it yet at four years old and in my opinion there's no benefit in forcing them to wait. But you should ask your Rav.

imaima

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 4:51 am

amother OP wrote:

My 4 year old doesn't get it that after eating chicken or other fleshing food he can't have a yogurt immediately after. I tried explaining that he has to wait but he says he's not fleishigs . Should I just let him eat meat and dairy without waiting even a little? It's a fight every time and I usually give in because he doesn't seem to understand

If he doesn’t understand the concept, he is excused from this restriction

imaima

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 4:53 am

amother OP wrote:

I get it but then my mother or sisters who see me letting him are always criticizing me for letting and only when I'm home with no company do I let him eat whatever whenever. What do I tell my family that I don't believe I have to force him to wait?

I think they are supposed to keep mitzvot lo taaseh from the age of chinuch. The age of chinuch varies according to the understanding of the child. Seems like your child doesn’t understand the concept of time yet.

You tell your family that you asked a rav about it (even if it was just imamother 😅)

amother

Plum

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 5:02 am

I'm so confused, you never tell your child no? Why can't they understand the concept that mommy said you need to wait and then they wait?
My DD is 4 and she understands a lot. She might not love that she can't eat ice cream after her hot dog, but explain we need to wait and we find something else and she waits
I asked my rav and from 3 years until 6 my kids wait an hour
6-8 they wait 3 hours
8 to bar/bas mitzvah they wait 4 hours

For those making their very young children wait 6 hours, please speak with a rav. There are different rules about chinuch then there once they're bar/bas mitzvah

amother

Oldlace

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 5:10 am

I've always encouraged my 2-4 year olds to eat something else and tried to stall them at least half an hour or so. By 5-6 they do usually wait at least an hour or so. But I have a VERY difficult time feeding some of my children, and if I get them to be brave and taste a tiny bite of shnitzel, and then they cry that they want a yogurt, I do not make them wait very long. That's just teaching them to never eat fleishig (which unfortunately a couple of my kids have learned!) Basically, I encourage dealing with the kid as an individual and looking at that kid's understanding as well as needs.

Success10

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 5:11 am

amother Plum wrote:

I'm so confused, you never tell your child no? Why can't they understand the concept that mommy said you need to wait and then they wait?
My DD is 4 and she understands a lot. She might not lo ve that she can't eat ice cream after her h ot dog, but explain we need to wait and we find something else and she waits
I asked my rav and from 3 years until 6 my kids wait an hour
6-8 they wait 3 hours
8 to bar/bas mitzvah they wait 4 hours

For those making their very young children wait 6 hours, please speak with a rav. There are different rules about chinuch then there once they're bar/bas mitzvah

For some 4 year olds it might go smoothly, but for others with extreme emotions and lack of impulse control, it's extrememly difficult. Especially since they have no understanding of why they're doing it. It also causes unecessary fighting and stress in the home. Again, I wouldn't force it on all 4 year olds just because some 4 year olds can handle. There's no need to compare to other families.

imasinger

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 5:21 am

There are two separate considerations, both of which have been mentioned.

1. Your rav should be the one who you ask about your practice, not your extended family. Definitely worth asking.

2. If your 4 year old has no concept of the difference between 30 seconds and 30 minutes, this is a good age to help him learn. It's important for many other reasons than yogurt for dessert.

Make sure you have a timer that shows clearly how much time is left. Sand timers are great for that.

Try it for other things before you start using it for this, so that it's familiar, and that in his mind, the concept of having to wait is not first and foremost about food.

amother

Coral

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 7:58 am

Ask a shaila so you can stand up.to your parents and naysayers.

At 4, I just have them "wait" something but can be a short time. Needs to be a septaye meal, and they eat something in between and wash up.

My kids dont wait 6 hrs until 10 or 11.

amother

Jade

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 8:28 am

Ema of 5 wrote:

Get guidance from your rav before it happens again, and then next time you can tell them “we are following what our rav told us to do.”
I don’t think you need to force him to wait, but I also don’t think it needs to be immediately after. How soon after eating meat are we talking? As soon as he finishes? 5 minutes? 10-15? 30?

This. Ask your rav. Explain that he doesn't yet get the concept of it or the concept of how time passes.

It depends on the 4 year old.
My now 4 year old generally does. He's certainly developed in that sense. (He's also the youngest in his class but is at the maturity level developmentally academically and socially of at least a 5 year old).
He will ask me, "how much passed, can I have cheese now?" We try to make him wait at least 4 hours. But he STILL is only 4 and sometimes it's just 2 hours.... it's for chinuch and causing negative associations DEF isn't chinuch.
My other kid had trouble with time until she was past 6. Tomorrow, 2 hours and 10 minutes were the same to her. There was NOW and then there was NOT NOW.
(She was later diagnosed with adhd so that explains a lot too. At 10 she still struggles with time)

So it totally depends on the child. Def ask your rav. Then you can say you are doing as your rav said.

amother

Plum

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 9:31 am

Quote:

I have older kids with their fair share of extreme emotions and impulse control - they still have to wait and they did wait when they were four. Is it hard - yes? But this is a basic part of raising a child. Teaching them that sometimes we have to wait for things. If your 4 year old wants to go to school at 4 in the morning do you take him? What if he kicks and screams? Sometimes in life we have to wait...

She for sure should ask a rav what that amount of time should be, I'm just pointing out that for some reason when it comes to yiddishkeit we sometimes make excuses very easily for our kids (and I myself am guilty of this too at times), but I think they're much more capable than we give them credit for

amother

Jade

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 9:45 am

amother Buttercup wrote:

I don't give four years old fridge access (am I unusual?). So I have no issue with - oh you need a snack? Yogurt isn't an option right now, but I can offer x, y or z.

How do you "not give 4 year olds access" to a fridge?
My kids open it as soon as they have physical strength to do that. Same w pantry. Stuff I don't want them to have access to (like candy ir chocolate lol) I lock in one cabinet or keep it somewhere hidden. And no upper cabinets aren't safe. From 2.5/3 years my kids don't need anything to help them get onto counters so upper cabinets aren't an option either.

Do you lock your fridge?

amother

Buttercup

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 10:21 am

amother Jade wrote:

No I don't lock the fridge. They are just told not to go into the fridge.

amother

DarkMagenta

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 12:27 pm

amother Jade wrote:

one of my kids climbed on the counters from about 20 months....

my 20-month-old baby's best place to sit and relax is in the fridge with the door 'closed'... LOL

amother

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 12:41 pm

imaima wrote:

😆. He actually does have a hard time with comprehending certain things and is actually in therapy for that. I was just wondering if I need to make him wait a bit even if he doesn't understand

amother

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 12:43 pm

amother Buttercup wrote:

I don't give four years old fridge access (am I unusual?). So I have no issue with - oh you need a snack? Yogurt isn't an option right now, but I can offer x, y or z.

I don't have a lock on my fridge and he usually takes a yogurt when he's hungry so yeah it's hard to restrict him. Also he's a picky eater so even after I was successful in getting down 2 bites of chicken he still wants yogurt after... and then I regret I fed him chicken to begin with cuz I never know if it'll be a full portion or 2 bites

mha3484

Wed, Oct 25 2023, 12:53 pm

My overall philosophy is that I don't start habits that I need to later undo. For my kids it does not work. They are too strong willed. Making it a habit at 4 that after meat, we take a pareve snack if we are still hungry. Or if you want a non water drink there is always pareve milk to take. It just becomes second nature to them that if I ate chicken I cant have a yogurt. I can have a second helping of dinner or a banana or a bag of pretzels but no dairy. My oldest is almost bar mitzvah and I think for them this has been the way to go.

Maybe some kids can understand that last year I could and this year I cant but mine it just was a fail.

This applied to so many other things besides kashrus.