S/O alternatives to potching

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thegiver

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 2:30 am

https://zbermanbooks.com/spare-the-child-אל-תחטאו-בילד

amother

Bisque

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 2:33 am

dankbar wrote:

You can try to talk about or model, love care, concern and empathy towards baby, when he hurts baby.

You can be firm, set boundaries.

100%. But things do happen occasionally that are extremely dangerous and there needs to be a consequence

listenhere

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 2:38 am

You are asking about other methods and then refuse to learn or explore them.

Don’t be naive, potching is the short but very long way. There are better ways to do this, you just need to be open to it.

amother

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 2:39 am

listenhere wrote:

Another vote for Sara Yaroslovich’s method for in the moment. The book is worth every cent.

If it calms your house enough to save you 2 hours of cleaning help it is already paid off.

If it saves you a taxi to an evaluation it is paid off.

If it saves you needing to buy a promised gift for behaving it is paid off.

You get the drift…

Most parenting methods are for proactive parenting, which is really important. And Sara Yaroslovich is sorely lacking there. But her method is great for in the moment, the other ideas would have never worked for my kids.

I don't have cleaning help, taxis, and am about 10 months behind in promised birthday gifts. (I don't usually offer prizes for behavior.) A $45 parenting book is kind of steep.

The reason why I'm asking how to get my kid under control now is that most of the time they are fine, normal, or at least can be reasoned with. But in the moments of extreme behavior, it doesn't help that 10 minutes ago we had a nice discussion.

It's NOT about obedience. It's about stopping destructive or dangerous behavior when a child is past rational thought.

amother

Bisque

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 2:40 am

thegiver wrote:

Acc to spare the child by rabbi yaakovson never ever potch. Too risky.

Act angry (without being angry) , sometimes a look is all you need. Waiting patiently nearby while issuing a command. Sometimes repetition is necessary—as much as it takes until the stubborn child complies and yes that does mean “in the face” remove distractions without escalating your voice. Don’t show you’re threatened or phased. Keep an even calm demeanor and show that you expect compliance.

Natural consequences. Or midda keneged midda.

You have to realize is your child READY for the new behavior??? For example, a child under 2 might hear you say no to something repeatedly but that doesn’t mean s/he UNDERSTANDS and has the capacity to obey.

Communicating your expectations ahead of time!! ESP right before the Taava arises. Example: we are about to enter car, no eating in the car and give warning what will happen to kids who “forget”

When test boundaries —remind.
If child is repeatedly tempted to disobey!!—reassess where temptation is coming from. Try to see from child’s POV. CAN YOU ELIMINATE WHAT IS CAUSING CHILD TO MISBEHAVE? Ex: he is taking $ laying around the house… make sure it’s not laying around. Have predetermined punishments so you don’t escalate

If it continues daakva come up with an original unexpected response.

Never lash out. Respond always with FULL CONTROL.

I CANNOT RECOMMEND THIS BOOK ENOUGH!! Changed my life!

I don’t wait patiently nearby when any of my children can get seriously hurt or killed. We are not talking about stealing or making a mess. We are talking about running to street, throwing heavy objects at a newborn, unstrapping newborn from a swing and pulling them out and about to drop them in ceramic floor…

amother

Bisque

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 2:42 am

listenhere wrote:

I still didn’t hear any method that can be used for a 20 month old child (who doesn’t understand the way a 5 year old can) who is doing something extremely dangerous. And I actually wasn’t asking for advice but was just pointing out that it’s not always so simple and it’s very easy to judge

listenhere

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 2:48 am

amother OP wrote:

I get that, and what I’m saying is that her method is specifically for in the moment.

I see she also has a book for $30. It is still money, of course.

I wish you that you should be able to easily afford any parenting classes or books you think will help you, and soon!

Maybe some ima’s would be interested in opening a fund for this.

listenhere

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 2:50 am

amother Bisque wrote:

The truth is that in a dangerous moment, you do anything and everything to remove the danger. Anything at all. That really shouldn’t be what the conversations are about.

Iymnok

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 3:28 am

For some kids it’s the slap that they are looking for. They want the strong reaction, they are sensory and a slap helps fill their lack.
Sometimes the No Talking, No Emotion method stops them in the long term. It’s not an exciting activity if mom is calm.
So for some kids, a slap for dangerous behavior is a reward and encouragement.
Be careful with those precocious cuties!

NechaMom

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 4:48 am

amother Bisque wrote:

Again, I invite you to suggest ONE alternative to a small potch when a child does something that can get them killed. And suggesting a book does not count. Sorry. “Hitting babies is abusive” sounds very sensational and over exaggerating the situation which is a small potch. And also that’s your opinion so you can full stop all you want but again that’s your opinion

The problem is I doubt a small infrequent potch makes a difference in the behavior you’re describing. Something tells me it’s more than small and infrequent with no results anyway other than you releasing anger on a 20 month old who has no idea what he’s doing wrong or can’t control it. There were plenty alternatives mentioned on this thread plus there are professionals IRL. You said you are not here for advice though.

amother

Diamond

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 5:12 am

amother Bisque wrote:

Why is he trying so hard to hurt the baby? It's interesting? He's looking for attention? He likes the reactions (baby's and yours)? He's angry/jealous of the baby? I don't necessarily think potching is automatically abusive. And I don't think you and OP are describing similar situations at all.

OP is describing a child out of control, no rationalizing possible and too big to contain gently and easily. Sorry, OP, I've been there. I agree sometimes hitting in such a situation is all that helps, and helps the best. B"H, my ds (I have one ds, other dds, and only ds has behaved like this) has calmed down over time. He's 9 now, and has had maybe 1 meltdown like that this year. I didn't hit. I took him with me into a room and locked us in there for like 30-40 minutes. And spoke to him and he calmed down B"H. He was angry with a sister for something ridiculous. But dh and I used to (age 6-7) discuss it. I would try taking away privileges and dh would say "A slap gets him on track better and he doesn't feel as bad later." He was right, but I hated that ds would do something like hit a sibling and then flinch when I came near him. I don't know what's best. And OP, your kids sound hard! Iy"H we will all figure it out and raise wonderful children.

As for you, Bisque, you are describing a very difficult toddler. The thing is you say he's not traumatized. But it seems like you actually need him to be traumatized in order for this to work. You want him to be so flipped out he will not ever consider hitting the baby on the head! And that would be pretty abusive I would think, if he actually does all of the examples you've described. That would not be a 3 times thing (unless you meant 3 times a day)? For hurting baby, like I said, what's his goal? What's the appeal? I think you really should just wear the baby and always keep him/her safe with you when he's around. Unless you're sitting next to her on the floor. What other choice do you have?

Your toddler hurts her, you don't want to traumatize him, so he keeps doing it for whatever reason. If it's just one time because she took his toy, that's different. Then I'd say "No, that's dangerous, we never hit anyone in the head!" (I just said it the other day when my 1yo hit my 3 yo on the head with a hard toy. Then I took the toy away and said she can't have it bc she hit with it and that's dangerous and gives booboos.) But if this is a normal behavior for him, it doesn't seem like your hitting is actually a deterrent and you need to keep them separate for the time being. Other things like hitting you, hold his hand so he can't. Is he not re-directable at all? Seems like he's looking for attention. What are you doing while he manages to get into all this trouble? I know you said you're doing better than distracted moms at the park, but how can it be he's managing all this on his own? Toddlers can be picked up, held down, taken different places. Even if he wants to get into trouble, which some toddlers do, a lot of it should be preventable.

amother

Ballota

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 5:13 am

amother Bisque wrote:

Stick him in his room
Strap him in a highchair
Both are devastating for a toddler without being abusive.

NechaMom

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 5:16 am

Diamond, I agree with you and that’s why I don’t believe the potch is very small and infrequent. In the beginning she didn’t say it’s small. Only after I called it abusive...

amother

Brunette

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 6:27 am

Bisque, I assume you made the choice to have your kids this close in age unless it was a bc fail. It is your responsibility to do what it takes to keep both newborn and toddler safe without hitting any of the babies you chose to have.

My friend who has 4 kids under the age of 5 has a lot of systems worked out to make things work. She keeps the newborn in a different room than the toddler who can’t stop hitting it, or she holds the newborn in a baby wrap all day. A different time she put a big baby gate in and kept the baby’s swing inside it so the toddler couldn’t reach it. It can be hard and exhausting but it comes with the territory of choosing to have kids so close in age.

Using a harness is not abusive but looks strange to some strangers. You don’t have the luxury of being able to care what strangers think. You have your hands full with the baby and need to keep the adventurous toddler safe. A harness is exactly the right thing for you.

Maybe ask friends or family with kids close in age how they handled disciplining their toddler. They probably have more practical good ideas.

amother

Pistachio

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 6:55 am

amother Olive wrote:

I know two kids like this and later it was discovered that it was a symptoms of a bigger problem. Was he ever evaluated? Escape artists and runners tend to be symptoms.

Evaluated for what? What else is a symptom?

amother

Feverfew

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 7:29 am

Op you don't need a frum parenting book. Believe it or not non jews struggles with the same parenting issues as us.

Go to the library and borrow a few of them. See which ones make sense to you and would work with your child. You can also combine a few different techniques.
Talk to librarian and see if you can reserve some because the good ones tend to be checked out.

Some ideas: Good inside (dr Becky kennedy)
123 magic, the whole brain child
Go on Amazon look up "best seller parenting books". See which ones seems interesting to you and borrow from library.

amother

Bisque

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 7:54 am

NechaMom wrote:

name one alternative that you feel would work for me

amother

Bisque

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 7:56 am

amother Ballota wrote:

Stick him in his room
Strap him in a highchair
Both are devastating for a toddler without being abusive.

ah so locking a 20 month old in a room is not abusive?! He can open closed doors
Strapping him anywhere is not effective he just undies it and climbs out

amother

Diamond

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 8:14 am

amother Bisque wrote:

name one alternative that you feel would work for me

Depends the reason you're not holding him so he can't do all of these things. Are you busy in the kitchen at the time? If the baby is in the stroller with you, does he hurt her? Can you get some kind of fancier baby gate to keep him out of wherever the baby is or in wherever you are?

How does hitting work? You hit him, he sits and cries, you go back to whatever you're doing? Sounds like that would have to be a multiple times a day system. I'm sure you can see that that's not ideal.

What is he supposed to be doing when he is having these outbursts/fights/searches for dangerous things? Does he have many toys? Does he like to play? Tell us more about what he/you are doing, maybe someone will have a good suggestion. You're really not the only one with a challenging toddler.

Chayalle

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 8:38 am

amother OP wrote:

Parenting is about never getting to that point where a child is past rational thought. It's parenting so that child doesn't escalate like that.
Once child is at that point, you basically walk away so that child doesn't get hurt. Or restrain and put child into a closed room for everyone's safety. But parenting books and courses are about not getting there, for the most part.
After I took Mrs. Trenk's parenting course, my home became a different place. Even my 4 year old who did tantrum, tantrummed differently. It was a process that spilled over. It wasn't about a specific really escalated situation and how to deal, because that didn't happen any more, to be honest.

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