Consequences for chutzpah

amother

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 4:11 pm

I just told my 8 yo she must write 8x "I will speak respectfully to my parents" after she went on a tirade of cussing me out.
Of course she refused. I told her if she isn't done when dinner is done then she is losing out on her cheese cake she absolutely loves.
So she sat down to do it yelling "I'm writing it but I do not mean it! I will write it then rip the paper!"

This kid can get really explosive and yell really bad things. Likely has adhd (waiting for an appointment for an evaluation.) And poor control/frustration tolerance.

She's not my oldest but never had a kid behave like this. I'm a bit at a loss how to proceed / what is appropriate for such situations.
We don't have many rules in this house beyond basic menchlichkeit. I ignore a lot because I see it's hard for her. But yelling, "your a disgusting person
I wish you die" is not ok. It needs to stop.
I never ignore her pain and what's causing her to lash out. But I must address her language and behavioir too as I see my younger (and older) kids imitating her. And it's scaring me where it's leading chv.

What else is an appropriate consequence?

amother

Daffodil

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 4:23 pm

Oy this sounds tough. I would not even have her write the note or anything. Just say to her something like this "I will not tolerate you speaking with me in such a non derech eretzdig way. Unfortunately I can no longer give you the cheesecake". If she keeps screaming or being rude, tell her that she will lose something else. Do it in a very calm and quiet tone of voice.

If it continues just keep doing things like this in a calm manner. It will hopefully start to work.

amother

Magenta

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 4:52 pm

Idk. With my kids, it's not because they didn't know, it's because they couldn't help themselves, they were in constant fight flight. Consequences always always escalated things. Mostly I would ignore, sometimes I'd say in an even tone "that's not a nice way to talk", or "it's not ok to talk that way". And then just move on. We worked on calming their nervous systems. When they're in a good place brain-wise, they naturally are more respectful and agreeable.

amother

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 4:54 pm

amother Daffodil wrote:

We've been doing this and she was loosing out on too many privileges and it just made her sad and bitter. It breaks me to do that. How much more is it breaking her. cant do it anymore. I need a buffer before the loss of privileges happens. So I thought I'd make her write it.
I do not want to break her spirit. I want to be her mechanach.

So she wrote it and then wrote at the bottom, "I don't mean it at all. I just wrote it cuz I must but I will not learn from this. When I am done I will rip up the paper"
It was so stinkin cute that she still had to voice her defiance. I have no problem with that. But I need to be mechanach her to the proper way. So I just took it ignored it and moved on.....

amother

Wed, Dec 06 2023, 4:56 pm

amother Magenta wrote:

I feel like she really has little self control.
That's why I don't want to take away privileges.
Walking away doesn't help becuase she must get a reaction out of me. If she doesn't and I walk away it'll escalate too and she'll hurt her siblings. (Everyone is afraid of her 😨 )

What can I do to calm her nervous system?

amother

Hotpink

Thu, Dec 07 2023, 6:52 am

OP, you've got to drop the power struggle & threats, those kids thrive on that.
If my kid says something like what your daughter said, "you're disgusting, I hate you....."
I reply calmly "you think I'm disgusting, why? Why do you hate me?" And we go in to a discussion or the child is shocked in to silence. And I then tell them, that even if we feel annoyed & upset, it is not ok to talk to parents like that.

amother

Hotpink

Thu, Dec 07 2023, 7:04 am

amother OP wrote:

Has she ever been evaluated & is she getting help & services for her issues?

amother

DarkPurple

Thu, Dec 07 2023, 1:37 pm

I think consequences for chutzpah backfire terribly and perpetuate and reinforce the problem.

What works is teaching. What works is reinforcement.

You cannot speak that way to parents. When you are ready to communicate effectively come try again. Maybe send to room until they calm down and try proper communication. Properly expressing their feelings and emotions, whatever the issue is. You might have to give examples to help teach it. The kid is only 8 and out of control.

When they express themselves well, point out that they did a good job of it. Help them through the situation they are struggling with.

Cheesecake has nothing to do with chutzpah. Kids don't need training or conditioning. They need teaching.

amother

Burlywood

Thu, Dec 07 2023, 2:52 pm

"you’re a disgusting person I wish you die"

“Oh honey you are feeling sad and frustrated. Come here I want to hug you and make you feel better. Mommy loves you. You’re still angry? You really wanted to…? I believe you, I understand you feel that way. I still can’t let you…. Because….. like I said…. But I love you. Hug hug cuddle cuddle…” child still angry. “I know, I know, I understand, I feel you”… still sulking but begins calming down, eventually changes subject.

I’ve never punished a child for feeling angry.

Throw tomatoes,
Call me liberal,
Call my kids entitled.

I’ve parented this way for over 10 years (including children with ADHD) and it has never failed. To be honest I believe this is the reason I’ve never really had an escalation of that level.

amother

Aubergine

Thu, Dec 07 2023, 3:22 pm

amother Hotpink wrote:

Yep.
This works for my 9 year old.
Most of the time.

tichellady

Thu, Dec 07 2023, 3:57 pm

amother Burlywood wrote:

This. It’s hard to do but I think the best option. When the child is calmer you can talk and brainstorm more respectful ways to express anger and pain than namecalling