My 13 yr old dd wants to put nailpolish on her feet

zaq

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 8:19 pm

Frankly, I don't see how nail polish is philosophically different from makeup or from jewelry, for that matter. All three involve applying a foreign material to the body for the purpose of (choose all that suit): self adornment, improving on nature, attracting men, or showing off. If you don't object to makeup or jewelry, why do you object to nail polish? Any of the three forms of decoration can be applied moderately or lavishly, with or without involving good taste.

Last edited by zaq on Tue, Dec 19 2023, 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 8:24 pm

Ma11 wrote:

I hear, I am taking all the advice from here... I allready told her I spoke it and over with smart people..., and will take her somwhere nice to start, then she can do it on her own too... I cant explain to you her reaction she got so emotional!! She danced and laughed and hugged me ... She told me ma its freaky just today I davend so hard for hashem to help me ! Lol Omg she shouldve asked for more important stuff right? But this is driving her crazy! , so for a 13 yr. Old, this could mean the world, go figure...

I don't understand why you're taking a 13 year old girl to get her nails professionally done, when you don't approve of it. I don't think this is a smart thing to do. You can get her polish to do by herself at home, but making an exciting trip about it & encouraging it, is taking it afew steps too far for a chassidish 13 year old girl & you may just be opening yourself up to more problems.
She's 13. Not 18. Take it slow.

amother

Oleander

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 8:28 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

I would do it on a Thursday night and remove on Sunday night, or do over a vacation or summer. In case you’re worried about her showing friends etc Dont deny it . It’s not a Halacha and if you say no she ll want it more.

this.
Im chasidesh too. At I feel that If you say no to something that's not actually Halacha your nos lose value and your kids start wondering if they can't do it because Halacha or just because the school doesn't let.

amother

Oleander

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 8:29 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

mango18

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 8:33 pm

I got the idea of a salon from here ive never been at one and dont know the pitfalls so thanx for your eye opening I will maybe go check it out myself to see it closley, and if its clean take her for a treat once in a while or for a major thing she did...

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 8:35 pm

Ma11 wrote:

If you want to treat her, treat her with something that you approve of and is in line with your values. I think that you're giving her the wrong message if you make a trip or fun treat out of this. You don't want it to cause additional issues later on ch'v. She's only 13, that's very young, especially for chassidish kids.
(Depending on the school she goes to, you should also advise her not to talk about it in school or advertise it to her class/friends.)

amother

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 9:00 pm

Nail polish is different than jewlery and maykup, most chassidisha woman wear jewlery, earings, rings necklaces , comon, evrey chasidish kallah gets jewlery . maykup is a different story... Not all chassidish girls and woman put on maykup , for reasons of tznius .maybe only in ho,use for their husbands... Nailpolish you find by certain types , im not putting anyone chasvesholom down, but thats the fact by chasidim its not seen that much . If yes most wear clear. .at least thats what I know in my circles...

amother

NeonYellow

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 9:04 pm

Maybe I'm super naive (or super jaded??) but just wondering what people mean by exposed to stuff in a nail salon. Iv'e been to many nail salons in my life (in jewish and non-jewish areas) and honestly confused as to what you would be exposed to there...

zaq

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 9:13 pm

amother OP wrote:

It's "different" only because people in your crowd don't do it. In principle it's exactly the same thing: You're putting something on your face or body to decorate it, to show off your wealth, or because you think it makes you look prettier. A big diamond ring or bracelet calls attention to your hands just as much as nail polish, certainly more than pale nail polish. Earrings and necklaces call attention to your face and neck as much or more than discreet makeup. You approve of jewelry because you're used to it in your circles, , no other reason. There are religious groups like the Amish who disapprove of any form of adornment, even buttons on clothing and certainly jewelry, not for reasons of modesty but because it shows a lack of humility. ( I can't say I blame them very much. )

amother

Strawberry

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 10:27 pm

Didn’t read the whole thread but I just want to say that as an adult I went through a phase where I would paint my toenails. I’m chassidish btw, dh had no problem with it as long as I kept quiet about it. I did it for a few months and had fun choosing all kids of funky colors. I got it out of my system and haven't painted my toenails in years.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 10:42 pm

amother OP wrote:

Just wondering if anywhere in the torah it talks about nailpolish ... Cuz jewlery we see the avos gave it to their brides... Maykup maybe im not sure and nailpolish any clue?

I think that the only thing the torah mentions as seductive & attractive, is eyeshadow & perfume. I'm going to try to look it up ih.
Whatever make-up, jewelry, polish we wear, should be worn in a modest way.

LovesHashem

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 10:52 pm

zaq wrote:

I never thought about that until now. I do know we were taught in Israel BY that the source for no nail polish is that a man shouldn't get pleasure from a woman, even her fingertips.

There's also something to say about community standards. If you live in an area where no wine wears nail polish but yes to jewlery and makeup, although it makes you more attractive it's not super in your face since everyone is used to seeing it and it's also done toned down. If you walk in even with a pretty pink polish it's super noticeable because no one is used to seeing it.

I was taught halachic ally this is problematic as well as a resident. (Not as a visitor)

mango18

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 11:12 pm

I once had a discussion whth a woman wearing a very long wig, she claimed this, that in her community its the norm to wear these wigs, and therefore its allowed there, its intresting that your bringing it up here. I wonder if its true with halacha, pertaining to wigs maykup and nailpolish etc... Btw this is just for my curiosity and not to preach , draw lines or educate anyone.

DrMom

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 11:32 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Not sure I follow this argument that men should never get pleasure from seeing women. In that regard, how is wearing nail polish different from wearing a nice dress?

Also, OP's daughter wants to paint her toenails, not her fingernails. I presume her feet are covered when she is outdoors.

NechaMom

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 11:32 pm

Ma11 wrote:

Right. There’s such a thing as community norms when it comes to tznius. In certain communities it may be perfectly acceptable for girls to wear nail polish to school. Since it’s not the norm by you, you should ask a mechaneches how to go about it so your daughter can grow up not to hate tznius. I like the idea of allowing nail polish at home and removing it before she returns to school. Taking her to a salon when it’s not done in your community sounds overdone.
Btw, it’s makeup.

mango18

Tue, Dec 19 2023, 11:49 pm

Thx for your insight and correc. I agree with what your saying , im thinking right now to start with giving her a few colors to play with . Regarding going to a spa / salon im putting in on hold for now , gotta do some research...

LovesHashem

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 12:24 am

DrMom wrote:

I agree with you. I was just saying for those who want to know where the source is this is what I was told. For the record I do wear nail polish.

LovesHashem

Wed, Dec 20 2023, 12:25 am

Ma11 wrote:

The standards thing is there's a halachic issue with lowering the standards of a place. No issue with making them higher....