Your take about seminary asking that we be paid up by June!

amother

Oleander

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:45 pm

Out of 75 girls in my grade, 10 stayed home from seminary. My parents are bh well off and yet did not allow me to go. I was devastated - as you can imagine, the 10 girls that stayed weren’t exactly the most popular and fun girls. I was a straight a student and all my friends went to top seminaries. Yes, that year was hard for me, but I believe my parents were 100% right. Sem is a waste of money and such peer pressure. During the year I was home I got such a head start in life. I didn’t have many friends - so I kept myself busy working 3 jobs. One full day and two side talent hustles. I bh made enough money to purchase a house, an investment that has been such a help now that I am married with a baby and there are bills to pay.
Yes there are the some that seminary is something that’ll change their life and be good for them forever, and those people should go! But for the majority of girls that go just because of peer pressure and shidduchim - it’s wrong. And the parents who can’t afford it that send their daughters anyway are in a way pressuring the people with money to send and creating a cycle that is just pointless for everyone.

amother

Watermelon

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 9:49 pm

amother Teal wrote:

Pretty soon people will post on imamother about what a chutzpah it is that the pesach program they are going to is asking for payment upfront...
How is this different if you think about it? No one is running a seminary for the chesed, it's all a business!

No.
But what did you think of Pesach Programs that closed because of COVID and refused to reimburse anything or give a credit for the next year.
The problem that I have with being expected to pay the entire the entire thing in June is the uncertainty.
Many seminaries did not reimburse by COVID.
And after simchas Torah, seminaries made it quite clear that they would not reimburse anyone who left.
I actually know girls who felt compelled to stay because of all the money they would lose and really struggled with their mental health especially during the rockets.

I would have less of a problem if the seminaries made it clear that due to war or act of G-d, they would attempt to reimburse at least partially.
But many seminaries have very clear clauses that the money will not be reimbursed and yet we're still expected to pay it all whether or not our child will be able to attend.

amother

Bluebonnet

Sun, Mar 03 2024, 11:05 pm

amother Raspberry wrote:

A business cannot just do whatever it wants. There is such a thing as unfair and even illegal business practices.

Plz consider that seminaries are often one and done. If a seminary takes 100 girls unfortunately there will probably be a handful who things come up and they can't pay. Once the year starts the seminary won't kick out the girl, so they are stuck.

So I can understand why they want the money well before june the following year. There's no recourse once the year starts if things go bad.

This is the other side ofv the coin which isn't getting mentioned on this thread.

Princess23

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 7:52 am

funkygirl wrote:

I heard about it but refused to believe that this could be true. At first, they ask for a $5,000 deposit and then head checks or credit card to be paid up by JUNE 2024!!!! What are they thinking or not thinking, most of us have other bills to pay and with inflation when prices are doubling every month, with other tuitions to pay! I'm beside myself, unless money isn't an issue, or you have a rich uncle or you plan on robbing a bank, how in the world are coming up with this money till JUNE???????? Any answers? As it is had a hard time coming up with the payment of the deposit. The rest of the payments I thought I had till JUNE 2025, but there is no rachmanes even from the cheaper seminaries, if they want it all paid pretty much up front, how is that cheap? with literally chocking us????

How do parents do it? One day iyh I’ll be happy to do it for my daughter. But, for now, I need to start gathering my funds.

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

But do they seriously need 25 k from 100 girls to keep it running?! With that type of money they can use it towards med school or pharmacy school tuition or towards housing, unless they got lucky and are super smart and got into yu med school or nyu.

amother

Navyblue

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 9:08 am

It's a complicated part of our society that I have no solution to.
There are girls who really have no need to go, and only feel they need to because it's what everyone else does. They feel so pressured to go to seminary, which makes their mothers feel pressured to send them (it's quite a big deal to turn your daughter down. Not exactly as easy as saying "sorry you can't get new boots this winter").
The seminaries are businesses. Some more, some less, of course, but everyone needs to make money. They have a name to uphold and the expenses of running such a business and living up to the standards they're expected of are enormous. They're each trying to get the best names as teachers, the best trips and activities, keep the girls happy and constantly busy so they don't get complaints... the things they have to do nowadays are way more than years ago when I was in sem.
Some sems are more of a money-making scheme than others, and they'll charge more so they get more at the end of the day.
It's a very harsh and unfair system for those stuck in it like that.
But then there's also the other girls - the ones for whom seminary is a wonderful, life-changing experience that they look back on for the rest of their lives. Personally I know that my mind was opened to a lot more than it was before - in a very good way - and there's no way I'd be living the way I am now if not for seminary. I am so grateful that I went.
I earned the majority of the money I paid to go - both for tuition and also 100% of my spending money. I also paid for the flights and for my supplies. I worked very hard getting various scholarships too. My parents definitely still had to stretch themselves, but my mother also still looks back at seminary with such fond memories and it's also the reason she lives the life she does. She is still very close with some of her seminary friends after 40+ years. As kids we always heard about her seminary experience and knew that she wanted us to go, but that we were expected to make it happen and then they'd help us.
I'm happy I didn't just get a 'free ticket' - I think that taught me some very good lessons, too. But I am so grateful that I went to seminary. For the lessons I learned, relationships formed (yup, some of my closest friends are still from sem!), being exposed to a life I'd never dreamed possible, spending a year in EY, the independence, etc.

But it's a complicated issue that I don't have a solution to. For the girls that don't need to go, it's such a waste and a frustration (understatement). For the girls who benefit like I did, I wish there was a way we could lower the standards and lower the prices so they could still get that without the insane prices.

amother

Bluebonnet

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 9:18 am

Princess23 wrote:

So you're making the argument that the seminary business is the only business in the world where the owner shouldn't maximize their profit and should choose to voluntarily make less money.

I have a relative who runs a very popular seminary in Israel. He has told me that every single year their are well meaning families who inform the seminary during the year that they are unable to pay the previously agreed price. The seminary would never consider sending the girl home. At this point they try to work something out but it's just a loss. The girl goes home in June and the family is not incentivized to pay. They feel they already paid around half and it's enough.

I can understand why the seminaries insist on so much money in advance.

amother

Lightgreen

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 9:57 am

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

The seminaries shouldnt be marketed as a must for every girl. If they present themselves as providing a luxury option then they're free to set any cost and market themselves as a business.

If they take the road that seminary is a must for every girl, and that its critical for yiddishkeit and for spirituality then they need to set their approach accordingly.

Take the comparison to the pesach program. Imagine if the pesach program was a must for our yiddishkeit. Would you still say its appropriate for them to set astronomical fees that most can't afford? Or would they need to consider the average financial state of society?

Same here - seminaries can't play it both ways. Which business wouldn't want to play it both ways - make something out to be a critical need and be able to charge exorbitant fees? What a win-win situation! Seminaries need to decide their role in society and behave accordingly. Otherwise, it falls under exploitation or extortion.

little neshamala

Mon, Mar 04 2024, 10:42 am

amother Lightgreen wrote:

Exactly this! So well put

Princess23

Thu, Mar 07 2024, 12:01 am

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

I am not related to anyone who owns a seminary, but at least your a relative of someone who owns a seminary and admitting that it’s a business and saying that those who choose not to send due to not wanting to feed into the business have validity to what their saying.

People need to realize, raising a child in a frum life, can cost 50 k a year just until they’re 5, that’s already 250 k! Then they need to pay 10-15 k a year for tuition, that’s 120 - 185 k then another 25 k to seminary plus 200 k to become a dentist or lawyer or whatever, plus all the other many expenses, multiply that by 10-15, you must be a multi millionaire to support a frum family!!!!

chestnut

Thu, Mar 07 2024, 12:40 am

Princess23 wrote:

$50K per year for 0-5 y old? Huh? Does the kid pay his own mortgage or leases a car?