Please explain to me what wanting woman to Lein Megilla is

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:20 pm

amother OP wrote:

TH, Challah, Shabbos candles to name a few.

That's three. Challah is medrabanan. Candles is midarabanan. Only TH is doiraysa. And yet men have MANY more.

We don't have SO many mitzvos just for us.

Also men have Torah learning which is equal to all the other mitzvos put together.

amother

Acacia

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:20 pm

I learned to lein when I was single and leined the same part for years and years and years. After a couple of years I could do it in my sleep. I reviewed every year, of course, but I basically knew the whole thing by heart. Furthermore, even when I did learn new parts every so often, usually because someone was going to be away and we needed someone to read her part, I didn't waste my time creating "tablescapes" and "themes" and tricolor kugels and artistically packaging my MM. Why do you object to women learning to lein when you seem to have no problem with all these other utterly unnecessary extracurricular activities?

zaq

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:23 pm

I think the women who moan about having too much to do and wanting to be "protected" as you call it are not the women learning to lein megillah. Do you object to women going to shiurim? If not, why not? After all, they are so overwhelmed, why are they doing something that is not obligatory?

chestnut

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:24 pm

amother OP wrote:

Yes I see your point. It doesn't bother me per se, I just find it ironic that we moan when have too much to do, and also whenwe can't do something. That's all.

Do you daven? Say tehillim? All in addition to all things women do. Went to hear the megillah twice on a crazy busy day like Purim? Why? Cause you value connection to Hashem and His mitzvos. Surprise, these women value the same thing, so they want to lein the megillah.

amother

Smokey

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:26 pm

amother OP wrote:

Doesn't really ansa my question.
We want the men to take care of us by sharing childcare, parnosa, housework etc. But when they lein megilla for us we say 'it's not fair, we can do a good job of it too...why can't we lein?'

מים גנובים ימתקו

Anyone who ever parented a four year old or a teen will understand this but adults are just larger teens so we’re the same.
If you tell us we have to do something we’re resentful and we’ll come up with all the reasons it’s unfair.
If you tell us one of our siblings or anyone other than us will do something, that automatically becomes the thing we want to do.

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:28 pm

amother Smokey wrote:

Is this why women spend so much time making tri color kugels, tablescapes and finding matching outfits for all their kids?

But spending time looking for a connection to Hashem must be mayim genuvim. Really.

amother

Tan

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:29 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Not true, really?

Which mitzvos do women have that are equal to men's mitvos????

Women have so many special mitzvos only for them? Like?

Take equal out of it. Men and women aren’t equal. There is no such thing as equal mitzvot. It’s not like men get A and women get B. Men and women have different rolls and the Torah reflects that. Feminism and reform and conservative brought in the ideas that men and women have to be equal. A kohen isn’t a levi isn’t a yisrael. Just like lehavdil a doctor isn’t a lawyer isn’t an engineer.
Before you look at other mitzvot, look at the ones given to you for you to do.

amother

Smokey

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:30 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

We have Torah too. It’s been discussed endlessly here. We wouldn’t get into Olam Habba without the merit of Torah, we just get the zchus of Torah in a different way. The details are in the Gemara Brachos beginning with נשים במאי זכיין / how do women get the merit of Torah study.

amother

Tan

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:32 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Ummm I don’t do all this.
I don’t think women who lein are doing it lishma. They’re doing it for kavod. To prove to everyone they can do it. Which is completely misguided.

chestnut

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:35 pm

amother Tan wrote:

Ummm I don’t do all this.
I don’t think women who lein are doing it lishma. They’re doing it for kavod. To prove to everyone they can do it. Which is completely misguided.

How do you know this?

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:35 pm

amother Smokey wrote:

IF she has a husband and sons who learn for her. Not everyone does. Also, it's not HER mitzvah, it's his, and she's just pulled along for the ride.

And we can get into olam habah without the merit of Torah learning just fine, its techiyas hameisim that's the issue.

In any case, a man does have more mitzvos than a woman. The fact that women's mitzvos are not EQUAL to men's mitzvos, means they are lower.

amother

Lily

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:37 pm

I'm not one of those women, but, I get what it's like to feel that you have strengths that are not being tapped by women's mitzvos, that would be tapped by men's mitzvos. Sometimes I wonder: of Hashem wanted women to act a certain way and fulfill a certain role, why why why did He create me far more suited for the opposite role?

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:38 pm

amother Tan wrote:

Right, men and women are not equal. That's what I said. Women have less mitzvos, so they are lower.

Seriously, it doesn't take that long to bench Shabbos licht and make challah. Some women dont go to the mikvah for months/years at a time. Other women are single...

There's plenty of time left after I do MY special mitzvos.

zaq

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

No. We don't want men to "take care of us" by contributing to childcare, housework and parnassah. We want them to pull their weight and be equal partners with us in our JOINT mission of rearing a Jewish family. And we want to pull OUR weight by taking an active part in Jewish religious life rather than being always on the sidelines and impotently waiting for a man to do for us.

imasinger

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:42 pm

amother Tan wrote:

Ummm I don’t do all this.
I don’t think women who lein are doing it lishma. They’re doing it for kavod. To prove to everyone they can do it. Which is completely misguided.

How many women do you know who have learned to lein megillah and have answered the question as to why they wanted to do it?

And do you imagine there might be any males for whom kavod might be a factor in learning?

Don't you imagine that either gender might want a little of both -- or might start learning to lein it for the intellectual challenge, then come to a deeper understanding and appreciation of the text in the process,?

It's one thing to say that men and women aren't identical. It's another to say that if something appears a certain way to a person, that's the only possible explanation.

The world is not so black and white.

amother

Bluebell

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:42 pm

amother Bluebell wrote:

You anyways have to stand there and participate. Lining is more active. If they take care of other things it frees you up. Also, if a woman really values avodas Hashem, she is likely to want to do it all the way. Something our community doesn’t appreciate

I’m quoting my own post. Why didn’t you respond? It was too much of a sensible answer to something that’s against your agenda? The fact is that once someone is interested in something, they are likely to want to do it all the way. To shine in that area and to excel. Our community is uncomfortable with women excelling in spiritual areas even if it’s more than allowed. The end result is that women are less spiritual.

And if you want to start about not having a chiyuv I want to remind you that women don’t have a chiyuv to have children and to raise them. So far, that I saw in Halacha that a single women can give her children away for the community to take care of. I think you should be very cautious when you say that Hashem doesn’t want women to do certain things because they don’t have a chiyuv. Klal Yisroel depends on it.

amother

Tan

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:43 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

No it doesn’t.

amother

Bluebell

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:45 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Do you think Hashem doesn’t care that you don’t put in effort in other Mitzvos? We have so much empty time today (especially if we choose to have time) Don’t you think it’s a chutzpa that we don’t spend it learning?

seeker

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:47 pm

It's an independence thing. They don't want to be stuck saying "oh no, we need a man, someone go find a man because we didn't hear megillah yet and I've got seven girl friends over here but we need a maaaaan."

The person I know who wants to do this loves learning and using new skills in many ways, has a knack for tune, and it feels wrong that she shouldn't be able to put this skill to work usefully just because she was born female. She's not a person who is perpetually overwhelmed with life and she would totally go around to nursing homes and homebound people to read for those in need like some men do. Then those men could stay home and help their overworked wives.

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:49 pm

amother Tan wrote:

No it doesn’t.

Ok, I'm a little lost here.

You say that our mitzvos are equal to men's mitzvos is about feminist brainwashing. I agree, the three mitzvos you mentioned are not equal to all of men's mitzvos.

So they're either higher or lower (I mean if they're not equal, then what are they? Its either higher or lower). The three mitzvos that you say we have - two are medrabanan- are certainly not HIGHER than all the men's mitzvos.

So what are you saying?