Do you know what your sons are doing tonight?

amother

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:36 pm

amother Tan wrote:

I’m more horrified that one would tell boys in this state to leave and not make sure they’re safe than I am with the boys behavior.
At least they have the excuse that they’re children.
An adult should know that they have to make sure a child, even one they don’t know, is safe.

We asked them for their rav’s number, and they refused to give it to us . Would it have been better if we called the police and got them all arrested for underage drinking? How exactly could we have taken responsibility for kids we don’t know, who weren’t listening to us. I assumed they had a driver waiting for them somewhere on the block / however they got here they would leave.

Librarian

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:38 pm

amother Seablue wrote:

And your sons are a minority.

Maybe. If it would be important to enough people they would not be. If this were valued in our society then it would be the norm and the abhorrent behavior described would be greatly diminished. Make drinking in excess and smoking or vaping an impediment to getting into Brisk and this problem will be mostly solved.

Last edited by Librarian on Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:41 pm

Librarian wrote:

Maybe. If it would be important to enough people they would not be.

This just isn't true. Young men like alcohol. It's a fact. Those that don't are the minority. It's one day a year where there is a mitzvah to drink and you can't expect these under developed brains to know when to stop. That takes a few experiences of trial and error for most.

There will always be the few guys who don't like the taste of alcohol or don't like getting drunk, but the fact is, that is not the typical bachur.

amother

Slateblue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:45 pm

Librarian wrote:

Not in my house. My son is 23. Was not drunk 10 years ago, not drunk today. It does not have to be the mitziyus.

I have a few sons (over bar mitzvah). Half drink and half don't. The ones who take after my side of the family don't enjoy drinking. They just don't see the point. My husband does drink and some take after him, but they are "good" drunks and can hold their liquor. I have never had anybody throw up in my house.

I am lucky, they have good genetics. It's just luck.

Librarian

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:47 pm

My kids like it just fine. Go back to my original post. You are explaining Exactly why kids should not be drinking. Their under developed brains do not know when to stop. That's why there is a LEGAL drinking age. It's LAZY to say young men like alcohol and so be it. It is also against the law.

amother

Seafoam

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:48 pm

It's despicable that for teen boys, Purim became all about collecting money for their yeshivahs. The yeshivahs know what goes on, we all do, we see it on every street corner. It's disgusting, turning teens in to fundraisers. The yeshivahs should hire adult fundraisers to go around, they could hire a violinist, drummer, ventriloquist to go around make a show for the rich people and fundraise that way. Stop involving our children in fundraising.
I know this will never change so at least stop giving teenagers alcohol!

amother

Seablue

Sun, Mar 24 2024, 11:59 pm

Librarian wrote:

Well obviously it's not a good mentality. But many parents try their best, and there's really nothing you can do. Teenage years are known to be ones that are full of mistakes.

How did you scare your sons so much that they wouldn't touch more than a glass of wine?

Your sons are still not the typical bachurim.

ETA: Many parents do so much alcohol education and try to stop their sons from ever getting drunk and it BACKFIRES. There are really so many factors at play here.

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:09 am

All you can do is your best. Reading through this thread it does not seem like much effort is being made. Very defeatist.
From a very young age we took every opportunity that arose to point out how bad drinking and smoking is. In fact, I remember being in a shoe store with my oldest son who did not even have his upsherin yet. The salesman was smoking (this was many moons ago) and my son pointed to him and said in a very loud voice "that man is going to die!". We explained over and over how some people start drinking or smoking and can never stop and that there is no way to know who would have that problem so we can never start. Until my boys were older and could understand nuances better, we only used grapejuice for kiddush. Once they got older, my husband switched to wine and we will use ONE bottle of a good wine for shabbos. NO liquour EVER, except for their bar mitzvah and aufruf kiddush. We have a happy home. Very into sports and camp etc. Pretty much we had one major rule (technically 2) NO Drinking, NO smoking. Not that hard to follow.

My youngest son who is 23 and does not drink or smoke or vape will tell me how common it is. He thinks it's no big deal. So I asked him so why don't you? He said straight out "because you scared the hell out of me" lol.

Last edited by Librarian on Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Turquoise

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:11 am

Why is everyone jumping on op. It’s frustrating to have your Purim interrupted by drunk, out of control boys, and wiping strangers vomit is not for the faint of heart. Though I do think op’s tone could’ve been kinder. After all many secular teens party hard every weekend. We are lucky if our boys stick to once a year only.

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:17 am

amother Turquoise wrote:

Not so lucky for the many boys who try it once an year and then can't stop. Not so lucky for their future wives. And please lets not compare our boys to the secular world.
I guarantee, 100% if getting plastered or smoking/vaping would disqualify a boy from getting into Brisk or the BMG, this problem would dissipate significantly. If girls would care 10% as much about these behaviors as about how many years a boy is planning to learn after marriage, we would cut down on this by far.

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:27 am

amother Seablue wrote:

I think you got extremely lucky.

My parents are incredibly anti drinking and smoking. We were taught from a young age the dangers of it all. Nonetheless, every single one of my brothers has gotten completely hammered on purim at some point or another.

But one point or another is still so much better than what is being described here.

Ema of 5

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:28 am

Librarian wrote:

Or they know that they can talk until they’re blue in the face, but they can’t control other people. We can teach our kids, and talk to them, and educate them, but we can’t make them do what we want.

amother

Seablue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:29 am

Librarian wrote:

Does your husband abstain from alcohol? I get the smoking thing. They never have to start. But having a glass of wine is a normal part of life. How did you teach your children what they can tolerate? Was there a one glass rule?

Ema of 5

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:30 am

Librarian wrote:

Because all boys are going or want to go to brisk?

amother

Seablue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:31 am

Librarian wrote:

But one point or another is still so much better than what is being described here.

I'm confused. Do you know what "hammered" means? It means so drunk that you are at minimum throwing up once and at maximum getting your stomach pumped.

That's exactly what is being described here.

Librarian

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:33 am

We have a bottle of wine at the shabbos table. A good one (or so I am told). If there is company we will have one sweet which my husband prefers and one dry which most of the rest of the world prefer. When it's finished that's that. It's not a rule. It's just the way it is. Like if we finish the 4 loaves of challah I buy for shabbos, there isn't any more.
But this is only when they got older. We only used grape juice for many many years. And even when we transitioned to wine which my husband enjoys at the shabbos table, it wasn't a "thing". My boys didn't even drink it. Now I try to have a dry wine when they come for shabbos and they may take a little, just like my husband has some of the sweet wine. It's not a big deal.

Last edited by Librarian on Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Seablue

Mon, Mar 25 2024, 12:34 am

Librarian wrote:

No one is scouting them on Purim. That's not what the day is about. The Rabbis I know are busy with good things. They aren't collecting names of 15 year old boys who are throwing up in the bathroom and writing them off as bad bochurim to not accept to yeshiva in 5 years...

Let's think of something else.