Vaccines in Halacha

bebe3

Mon, Sep 29 2008, 12:09 am

*disclaimer* I have no idea how to quote piece by piece, I hope you can follow.

OK, then at least my impression was accurate!

What impression?

But you definitely can't (shouldn't) generalize that to all families who don't immunize.

I didn't. I said specifically for that family and that it was not a generalization.

Why is it putting future generations at risk? We actually don't have any data on the long-term effects of mass vaccination. I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

I really don't want to debate. (white flag) too cooked out and waiting for my veggies to finish roasting (have you finished?). I think parents want whats best for their children and will decide whatever they decide. I just know which moms I call for play dates.

I agree, but you were the one who asked the question I quoted in the first place..

I only stated this because that was what the whole thread was about.

Seraph

Mon, Sep 29 2008, 12:21 am

bebe3 wrote:

And I would like to know one single prominent Rav who says its assur to vaccinate your children.

I know a family that has a strong risk factor for problems with their kids. Every one either has physical or psychological problems, or both. (Aside for the littlest one, but she's already having feeding issues.) Because of their specific situation they asked one of the gedolim in israel if they should stop vaccinating their kids, and the rav that they ask (I can find out who it was, but it was definitely a big big rav well versed in halacha and medicine) told them that with their risk factors, they should not vaccinate their kids, as their kids have more of a chance getting adverse side affects from the vaccine than the vaccine helping them. So I dont know of an all out psak, but I know this family was told that because of their risk factors, better not to take the vaccines.

bebe3

Mon, Sep 29 2008, 12:26 am

yy wrote:

bebe3, go cook. I have to clean my refrigerator and make my shopping list. It was fun procrastinating with you. Very Happy

def. I cleaned my fridge earlier (I was afraid the health department would shut me down if they ever showed up embarrassed

) Thats why I am still up cooking. But please daven my cleaning lady shows up tomorrow to scrape the rice krispies off the floor. I still need to make a few side dishes.

leomom

Mon, Sep 29 2008, 12:27 am

bebe3 wrote:

Just out of curiosity not to further debate and maybe because I just don't know, why would someone need to ask a rav a question on a childs health when they can just stop getting vaccines themselves if they fear it is endangering their child?

Those were my thoughts too, although Seraph's example is interesting. But really, since there is no halacha that obligates us to vaccinate, we don't need a heter not to. It's a medical question.

bebe3

Mon, Sep 29 2008, 12:30 am

I never asked this either, but if a doctor says a woman should have a c-section why do some ask a rav for this as well? Can it be more from an advice standpoint? I would rather have a good relationship and a trustful relationship with my docs, then second guessing them and think a Rav might know better.

leomom

Mon, Sep 29 2008, 12:31 am

bebe3 wrote:

yy wrote:

bebe3, go cook. I have to clean my refrigerator and make my shopping list. It was fun procrastinating with you. Very Happy

def. I cleaned my fridge earlier (I was afraid the health department would shut me down if they ever showed up embarrassed

) Thats why I am still up cooking. But please daven my cleaning lady shows up tomorrow to scrape the rice krispies off the floor. I still need to make a few side dishes.

You are waaaaay ahead of me. I think I know what I'll be cooking... need to give my husband a shopping list for the morning, so that's a definite deadline.

I hope your food comes out yummy. Get some sleep, too.

leomom

Mon, Sep 29 2008, 12:33 am

bebe3 wrote:

I think for a c-section it has to do with the baby being born at a scheduled time (not at its originally predestined time of birth). There are also other halachic considerations -- whether a c-section can be scheduled for Shabbos, etc. I don't know that much about it.

Seraph

Mon, Sep 29 2008, 12:34 am

bebe3 wrote:

It's not that I don't understand people who make choices that are not the same as mine. I don't expect people to cut their kids nails every sunday like I do mine (kind of a dumb analogy, but I think you might get it..) When it comes to health and children, these things really freak me out. I'm not preaching for people to vaccinate because I think they should (kind of why I don't check out forums that I don't agree with). When it comes to judging though, I am embarrassed to say but in regards to immunizations, I do. I know some families where I live that don't immunize, don't use over the counter medicines Etc..Their kids are always sick (I do not mean this as a generalization, I don't know enough people or statistics to back it up for more than the families I know of here) I judge their situation and lack of medicine and my kids don't play with them. Not because I think they should be ostracized, but for fear of my own kids catching whatever it is they have. So if people don't want to immunize, that is their decision. All I am saying is it is putting future generations at risk.
In regards to Rav not stating otherwise...It's not a halachic issue for a Rav to discuss.

if your kids are immunized, why should it make a difference to you if their kids are or arent. Your children have "immunity" to whatever they have, no?
And if you're talking about things that your children arent immunized against either, then that isnt really relevant to the discussion- there are all types of things that make kids get colds more often than others, and it has nothing to do with vaccines...

Last edited by Seraph on Mon, Sep 29 2008, 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total

BeershevaBubby

Mon, Sep 29 2008, 2:02 am

red sea wrote:

Along that line yesha, there are somewhat halachic health guidelines and it may logically support those who delay and then spread out the vaccines as opposed as getting them according to the current guidelines (referring to hilchos shabbos and the status of babies at different ages). However, I agree with you that is it not a good thing to misrepresent judaism.

Delayed vaccination is not the same as not vaccinating at all.

When my toddler was going for his first year rounds of vaccinations, I staggered them so they were delayed by a month, maybe 2 at most.

But it never crossed my mind to not vaccinate at all.

BeershevaBubby

Mon, Sep 29 2008, 2:11 am

yy wrote:

I think it's very honest to say something like what amother above (if it's still in this thread after being split) in the letter for the school file. It's not disingenuous to say that Jewish law requires each person to make decisions to guard their health -- in fact, I am proud of being Jewish when I read that and know that it is true.

It would be different if someone said, "Jewish law forbids vaccination" -- obviously that's not the case..

By claiming a religious exemption, you are stating that 'my religion forbids this'. And if your Judaism forbids it, then what about the thousands of Jewish kids who DO get vaccinated? If I were on a health/education board of a state and saw this, there would be investigations left, right and center.

All states offer a medical exemption so for all of you who now people who know someone who has a proven medical risk, they are exempt with a doctor's note.

BeershevaBubby

Mon, Sep 29 2008, 2:16 am

bebe3 wrote:

We b"h don't see measles outbreaks, polio, mumps and all the other deadly diseases in our times anymore because of vaccinations. In the old days they didn't have chemists and doctors like we do today, but somehow they were able to rid these diseases with their serums and the whole world does not have autism. Vaccinations are that much safer nowadays because of advanced medicines, computers and better educated doctors. But there is no way that I would not protect my child, and the mothers who choose not to vaccinate are the ones who are putting my children at risk. And I would like to know one single prominent Rav who says its assur to vaccinate your children.

Unfortunately that is SO not the case anymore. Here in Israel and in the Orthodox communities in England, measles outbreaks are becoming commonplace because people aren't vaccinating their kids.

Every few months you hear about a flight from/to Israel where the passengers have to be notified because one or two other passengers had measles. 4 months ago, a kid showed up for visiting hours at Bikur Cholim Hospital in Jerusalem... with measles.