Women's Learning | Imamother

gryp

Wed, Jan 12 2005, 9:30 am

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I think being a little skeptical and analyzing what you are told is healthy. Otherwise how are my religious beliefs different from a cult ?

mp, being a little skeptical of the words of our chachamim is not healthy. I am sure you will agree with this. analyzing and questioning, as long as you have the right attitude, is fine.

as R. Immanuel Shochet says, (he deals with cults and is a big debater about this and other subjects) a cult eventually leads the cult members into harm. Religious beliefs do not.

to explain about Amalek one step further, which im sure people know already, but Amalek is the concept of "coldness." When someone really believes and tries his best to practice Yiddishkeit, it is with "warmth" and "chayus." it is lively, and he is "into" it with lebedikeit. then Amalek comes and tries to get him off the path of serving Hashem, by putting a "coldness" in him, to replace the warmth. and this coldness comes from having doubts.

having doubts and having questions are not the same thing. because when you ask questions, it can be with a strong platform of belief in the Torah, but when you have doubts... the belief goes away.

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But I also understand everyone's points about not raising these questions here. I guess my lack of faith may be contagious to others and I will probably annoy more people than get answers.

thank you for understanding the problem. Smile

ForeverYoung
Guest

Wed, Jan 12 2005, 10:42 am

mp. I've been thinking about what you wrote, and this is what occured to me:

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I think being a little skeptical and analyzing what you are told is healthy. Otherwise how are my religious beliefs different from a cult ?

Judaism encourages questions! Just look at the Gemara - it's in a Q&A format.
However, many arguments in the Gemara end with: "Teiku" - We do not know the answer. When ELiahu HaNavi (the prophet) will come, he will answer this question.

This is the attitude: I ask, but I know that some answers are beuond me & I will accept the word of H' even if I don't understand

amother

Wed, Jan 12 2005, 10:57 am

mp
you said that you came here for answers to your questions.

So why didn't u come and say: "I have some serious questions. COuld you pls help me?"

You began attaking Judaism & Chachamim and saying that it needs to be adjusted & it has to embrace some of feministic ideal.

Then you accused the Judaism & Chachamim of prejudice to women and of shoving them into the furthest corner of the house to change diapers.

Then, when Forever gave a pretty good explanation of what the Gemara means when it says "Brining boys to learn" you agree it's a good explanation, but you challenge it, in what it looks like an attempt to prove that no matter what we say the Judaism puts women down.

You also choose to disregard the post in marital obligations thred where it is spelled out what the Judaism says about the roles of men & women. And where it clearly shows that men are obligated to take proper care of their wifes * are obligated to treat them better than themselves.

You confessed that you have some serious questions only after asked directly by other posters.

We have amother login name for those who want to keep their identity privite so you did not have to tell us who you are in order to ask honest questions

And a quote from Forever:

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if you're sincerely asking, we have no problem answering to the best of our ablilities.
However, there are people <...> who do not want to hear the answers, b/c they already made up their 'negative' mind <and have answers> & ask questions to prove to themselves & others that their answers are correct. & spending time on them is not productive

Please, deside what your goal is, and

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PS you saw how people responded to your questions and to other questions on this forum.
if you like somebody's style, pm them & you might be able to find a havrusa here

Motek

Wed, Jan 12 2005, 6:29 pm

Roza, why do you see attacks where there aren't any ... you too wrote a strange post, it was about a Mishna .. and you didn't respond to my question there ... what do you think about the Truth of the Oral Torah?

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she does NAASEH. so what's the problem?

re-read my post to her and you will see why

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it's the reasons she has problems with

not only that ... re-read what she wrote

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What about a woman who has only girls whose girls have only girls etc.-

remember the part about the husband?

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And then there is that whole gemara about R. Eliezer who disagreed with the chachomim and said let the wall fall down if I am right and it did, and no one cared....

mp - it's comments like this that really disturb me, and I'll explain why, and no, this isn't a personal attack

you misquote the Gemara and then have a problem with it!

you say, "no one cared"

NO ONE CARED? shock

do you know WHY those miracles were disregarded?

no, it was not because of the rabbis' indifference!

mp - here's another suggestion

when a person is first exploring Yiddishkeit, often, if they have the opportunity, they devote a year or more to serious learning, because attending classes here and there, reading books, often isn't enough

I understand you have a family and can't take off for a year to study (and are not a beginner), but I strongly suggest that rather than reading articles here and there on the Internet or wherever, and relying on what you learned and remember from school, that you set yourself up a serious learning program with a curriculum that uses original sources.

because time after time you misquote or draw false analogies, and serious learning is the prescription!

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The gemara is not chumash. It uses lots of extra words.

do you know that rabbis are medayek (closely examine) every WORD in the RAMBAM (much, much later than the Gemara)? Of course every word in the Gemara is sacred! It's the Oral Torah, given at Sinai. However (as my husband told me), in Gemara we are medayek in the tochen rather than in the precise lashon.

and there's a saying, "a kasha is a kelipa" ... yes, we encourage questions in Yiddishkeit, but ... depends where they're coming from ...