Should we move? | Imamother

amother

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 2:53 pm

In the U.S. you can do well as a plumber, electrician, etc.

Have you considered doing Ohr Lagolah and then going to the U.S. to do kiruv for a while? My friend went to a large OOT community after Ohr Lagolah, and after a few years her dh transitioned to training for a skilled trades job.

Has your dh considered doing hashgachah? I have a friend whose dh loves his job because he sits in a factory learning and occasionally gets up to check on things or turn a switch on. The hard part is he has to be gone two weeks out of every month, but the other two weeks he's home.

OOTBubby

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 2:56 pm

sequoia wrote:

Chicago is stressful, exhausting, cold, unfriendly, bureaucratic, dangerous, and fake.

Unless you're well-off, then everything's perfect.

And how do you know that? You sound like DW above.

I think if you will read most of the threads here about Chicago you will see that people here are very happy. In fact the community is growing extremely fast right now; faster than I ever remember (and I've been part of the community here for almost 40 years).

If you have first hand facts, please present them. If you don't, please don't spew garbage.

The only remote truth in what you've said is that it is cold. If you mean that in a physical sense, yes it is cold in the winter, but not particularly more so than NY/NJ or much of the rest of the country (yes, certainly more so than EY). BUT, the community itself is quite warm.

amother

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 2:58 pm

Quote:

Chicago is stressful, exhausting, cold, unfriendly, bureaucratic, dangerous, and fake.

Unless you're well-off, then everything's perfect.

+1

OP, we visited Chicago, because we were trying to choose between it and a couple other communities. We assumed Chicago would be a good fit for us based on everything people had told us. Well, we were in the frum community for literally 10 minutes when we turned to each other and said, no way.

It's very urban.

The frum people are nice but it's a VERY STRESSFUL ENVIRONMENT.

OOTBubby

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 2:59 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

Chicago is stressful, exhausting, cold, unfriendly, bureaucratic, dangerous, and fake.

Unless you're well-off, then everything's perfect.

The urban part is correct. It is an urban community, however, the frum community is located in a reasonably suburban-type setting (from one who grew up in suburbia). I don't know so much about the stressful environment though -- in what way did you see that?

sequoia

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 3:00 pm

OOTBubby wrote:

Well my dear, because I GREW UP THERE. My whole family still lives there. I visit 3-4 times a year.

And I did include the caveat that everything's fine if you're rich. Which you are.

OOTBubby

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 3:02 pm

sequoia wrote:

Well my dear, because I GREW UP THERE. My whole family still lives there. I visit 3-4 times a year.

And I did include the caveat that everything's fine if you're rich. Which you are.

Guess what, I am most certainly NOT rich. Maybe some family members are. I am at best comfortable. And I have plenty of friends who are certainly not rich and they are very happy here.

Sorry you've had a bad experience here, but Chicago today is also not what it was when you were growing up, so a few visits may not give you a proper perspective of what it is today. Please do look through all the threads here about Chicago and you will see that the vast majority of the posters (who DO live here) do not agree withyou.

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 3:08 pm

amother wrote:

I know this is your writing style, but it hurts a lot. I posted an honest, open, genuine thread trying to get some help in making a big decision. I don't need to be told that I'm nuts.

If you have something to post, please think twice before hurting someone's feelings.

Sorry. I don't think anybody here is nuts. I spoke badly. I just think it's a terrible idea and said so in haste. Sorry for my poor language.

sequoia

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 3:11 pm

OOTBubby wrote:

Examples:
No Medicaid. If you're poor you're on your own with medical bills. That's how my credit got ruined.

Relations between races are even more fraught than in Brooklyn.

The L.

The South Side.

Midwestern cold fake politeness.

Not one decent restaurant.

Unfriendly people.

Corrupt politicians. Governors going to jail every five minutes.

Heat in the summer, cold in winter. In NY if it gets down to -8C everyone freaks out. In Chicago, -20C is de rigeur.

Nowhere to go in downtown.

None of this affects you if you have a house, a car, health insurance, and work from home.

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 3:15 pm

Chicago is much, much colder than New York. Not that I am advocating New York for OP or anyplace else.

My notion was that OP should stay where she is.

Chicago is a vibrant place but it is awfully different from where OP is now.

The people in Chicago are used to its climate. You are always used to the climate where you are. I didn't think OP would have a good time with the changes including climate.

That's not at all a put-down of Chicago, a major place. It just didn't sound as if OP should make this move.

OOTBubby

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 3:18 pm

sequoia wrote:

Most of what you've said has no relevance to someone living within the frum neighborhoods. I know plently of frum people here on PA (PublicAid/Medicaid). No different than in NY. No race problems in the frum areas (on the whole no other races even present there). The "L" isn't great but neither is the NY subway, and it does get you where you want to go. I haven't on the South Side in almost 50 years -- no Jewish communities there now -- what does that matter. I don't know about "cold fake politeness" on the whole people here are very warm -- everyone says good Shabbos to everyone on the street, etc (that applies to your unfriendly people too). No decent restaurant -- I trust you haven't been to Shallots which has been rated as one of the top kosher restaurants in the country. Yeah, okay on the politicians, but this is the USA. Weather in recent times has been very similar to NY. Why do you want to go any where downtown? And, I believe OP said she would have a house and a car here (unless I'm mixing her up with someone else). And why would you need to work from home? So happens I do, but most women and men that I know do not (and most don't work downtown either).

Please get your facts straight before posting such shtuss.

sequoia

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 3:24 pm

You're missing the point.

Chicago is an unpleasant place; you can huddle up in WRP and never leave. Ok. Fine. I'm sure WRP is a nice neighborhood. But the rest of the city sucks. Why would someone want to move there?

In NY there are so many different neighborhoods to explore. I'd go nuts if I never left Flatbush.

Your comments about never going downtown, or only hanging out with white people, are the core of the problem. Not everyone wants to live in a bubble.

OOTBubby

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 3:26 pm

sequoia wrote:

Some how I think most of the frum community is very happy with that bubble. However, there is also a lot more to the Chicago are then you are mentioning -- have you ever explored the various suburban areas? Some really nice places to visit and for recreation too. I can't imagine you'd find anything nicer in NY than in Chicago on that front. NY doesn't exactly have so many nice neighborhoods itself. But if you like it, it's fine with me, just don't tell others that Chicago is no good because you like Ny better.

amother

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 3:41 pm

Quote:

Traffic was bad, driving was stressful. The city as a whole is big and anonymous, unlike smaller cities where things are on a smaller scale. The schools we were looking at were very close to streets with sketchy characters and we experienced overt anti-Semitism there. I felt I wouldn't be comfortable having my children walk to school.

I had a friend who lived in Skokie and that was better...but she was unhappy there, because she was an idealistic BT who'd been living in EY for years before moving back, and Skokie was too modern for her.

finallyamommy

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 3:48 pm

Another thought: I'm also a BT, and I do agree with others above that it's really hard for BTs to be accepted into the innermost circles, or however it was said (sorry, that was a page ago and I kept reading). OP, since you have specified that you ARE close with families/rabbonim/etc. here, why would you give up the roots you've put down and start over somewhere else?

Also, if you don't want to live in a "very American" area like RBS, as mentioned in your first post, why would you want to move to America? It seems to me that living in RBS is a nice compromise between going and staying, and it's one that DH and I talk about occasionally, though for now we're still in Yerushalayim.

amother

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 3:48 pm

Sequoia, do you think OP should move to NY? I don't. So whether NY has more interesting neighborhoods to explore than Chicago is irrelevant. She's right in looking for an OOT place. Question is, is Chicago really OOT enough? I would argue that OP shouldn't move to Chicago, L.A., etc. as they're too big, urban, and expensive.

I also remember a few threads over the years with posters who had moved to Chicago after marriage and found themselves very lonely. I know you can be lonely anywhere, but I remember people saying it was hard to break in...more so than in many other places. It seems like the lonely amother threads tend to be from the big urban communities.

imaima

Mon, Oct 06 2014, 4:11 pm

sequoia wrote:

HMMM OP doesn't seem like someone who wants to hang out with different races...