You only get three . . .

Miri7

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 12:11 pm

It would depend on the child. I would pick those that I think would, based on their personality, keep the strongest sense of connection. What would be most meaningful for them? What would they be likely to continue to do?

Laiya

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 1:08 pm

I would say, marry a Jew, especially if it's a son.

And to give their future male children a bris.

If I thought there was a chance she'd (if daughter) keep TH, even the most absolute minimal, then that too.

But mainly, just try to keep up the relationship. You never know.... Hug

Last edited by Laiya on Wed, Feb 10 2016, 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

GAP

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 5:56 pm

1)I saw that other people already wrote it, but I would say light candles every Friday night. There is something spiritual about the Shabbat candles that may ignite the soul and remind someone they are a Jew. It's also a neutral mitzvah that I can't imagine anyone hating it or having a problem with it because it's so beautiful. (Kashrut, TH etc are more difficult mitzvos that someone who is OTD might resent).

2) Go to shul/ synagogue on rosh Hashanah. It is our most important day when Hashem decides our fate for the entire year. And it's an easy once a year thing that involves prayer which can also be very spiritual.

3) teach your children about Jewish basics and about Jewish culture even if you're not keeping it. Maybe send them to Hebrew school once per week. Children like to know where their parents are from, don't make religion a non option for them because you had bad experiences. Give them the freedom to choose their own path.

Maybe

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 6:01 pm

A kiruv expert may provide better advice than good friends.

Most Israelis keep Mikva , I know a a ben torah, who barely got his OTD DD to agree to Mikvah .She now keeps kosher & more

A frum health expert in NY was evaluating a non-frum teenage girl, trying to figure out why she is depressed. He says to girl's mother this kid lacks nothing but some spirituality. Mother burst out crying, this is my only Mikvah child

Last edited by Maybe on Wed, Feb 10 2016, 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

penguin

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 6:06 pm

There was another story about a young man who promised his father/rov somebody to keep one thing, I don't think he was OTD, maybe not yet frum

And he picked tying shoes correctly. Which kept him back when e/o went out & they were all killed by a bomb. Or something like that.

Eventually he became frum.

I would try to convince the child to come see someone holy who will give a bracha to protect the child from straying too far & perhaps they will have an insight in asking them to keep one thing that will help, like in this story or the one above.

penguin

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 6:10 pm

Yup, here it is:

The Shoelace Saved His Life
heard by Rav Moshe Krokocki, Moshav Matityahu, Israel

It was around 3:45 p.m. on an erev Shabbat, and Dani (the names are fictional) was on his way home for his Shabbat furlough from the army. Shabbat was to come in that week at 4:25 and Dani lived in Be'er Sheva. While standing at the trampiada (hitch-hiking station) near Netanya waiting for a car to stop that would bring him a little closer to his home, Shabbat was the last thing on Dani's mind. Raised in a non-religious, Israeli family, Dani didn't really believe in G-d, but then he had never really given the issue much thought, anyway.

A car pulled up and Moshe rolled down his window. "I'm just going to Netanya, but I'd be happy to take you there. Maybe it'll help you get to where you're going a little quicker. Where are you going to anyway?" asked Moshe.

"I'm going home", answered Dani. "I live in Be'er Sheva".

"Be'er Sheva!" Moshe exclaimed in shock. "Why that's over 2 hours drive from here. How do you expect to get there before Shabbat?" ignoring the fact that Dani obviously didn't look religious.

"Well, to tell you the truth, I'm not religious, so it doesn't matter to me if I get there after Shabbat begins" answered Dani.

Moshe couldn't resist. Just for the off-chance that the soldier would agree, he had to do what he felt was right. "Please come home with me and spend Shabbat with me and my family. We have plenty of space and the food is great."

Dani, a bit taken aback, politely declined and began to move away, back to his position at the trampiada.

"Just give it a try. Maybe you'll have a good time, or at the very least, an interesting experience. Just give it a chance."

Dani, vaguely remembering a time long ago when he spent part of a Shabbat with a religious family in Be'er Sheva who were friends of his parents, didn't relish the thought of being cooped up all weekend in a restrictive environment. Besides, this guy was wearing a suit and black hat, and that scared him. To him, it represented the fanatic element of the Jewish people. But on the other hand, Moshe was right. Maybe he would enjoy the temporary change in his life's routine and have an "interesting experience." After thinking it over in his head for a few seconds, realizing that there were cars behind him waiting to move on, he ran around the other side of the car and jumped in, throwing his duffel bag in the back.

On their way home, they introduced themselves. Dani seemed to feel pretty comfortable with Moshe, despite his appearance.

Toward the end of the Shabbat, Dani had to admit that it wasn't as bad as he'd expected. There was something nice about the family atmosphere; the food, the song, the lively discussion, and the laid back, restful atmosphere. It was time to go, and Dani was thanking his hosts, and saying his good byes to the family.

Moshe, happy to have been able to provide his "brother" with a brief glimpse of what being a Jew is all about, was not totally contented. He needed to do more to keep this spark he'd planted burning within Dani.

"Dani, before you go, I have one request to ask of you."

"I appreciated this shabbat very much. What can I do to repay you?"

Pulling a Kitzur Shulchan Aruch off the bookshelf, Moshe handed it to Dani and asked him to pick one mitzvah that he'd be willing to do everyday. He realized this request might be too much, but he had to try.

Dani, once again taken aback, didn't know what to think. He looked askance at Moshe, but began to flip through the pages of the book. He came to the beginning where it says that a person must don his right shoe first, then his left shoe, then tie his left shoe, then his right one. He couldn't believe what he was seeing. "Is this what Jewish Law is all about?" he thought to himself? As strange as it sounded, he wanted to oblige his host, and this seemed like a pretty simple thing to do. "O.K." answered Dani. "here's my mitzvah".

Moshe took Dani's phone number so that he could "follow up" later and see how Dani was doing.

A few weeks later, as his jeep was about to leave his base to begin their nightly patrol on the Lebanese border, Dani, who had just woken up and threw on his clothes, remembered that he forgot to put his shoes on the way he had been for the last few weeks. He thought to himself- was it worth holding up his patrol to do something he didn't really understand why he was doing anyway? "What the heck" Dani said to himself. He was a consistent person in all he did in life, and this little "project" he took upon himself was no different.

"Wait a minute," Dani yelled to his patrol mates. "I forgot something in the tent."

Dani ran back to his tent, took off his shoes and put them back on as quickly as possible- this time properly.

When he came out, he realized that the patrol hadn't waited for him. He was upset at himself for causing the rest of the guys on his patrol to have to go without him. Ten minutes later, while sitting in his tent, a ruckus was heard in the command post. He ran to see what was happening. The radio operator reported to all present that patrol Almog-8 - the patrol Dani was supposed to be on - hit a land mine. All of his buddies were killed.

tigerwife

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 6:12 pm

grace413 wrote:

I don;t think these are realistic expectations of somebody OTD. Maybe the pork/shellfish after they'd tried it out and seen that it wasn't that great (I assume). TH is hard for believers and while many traditional people keep at least part of it, I can't imagine anybody defining themselves as OTD and doing it. Many people work on Shabbat and those that don't are doing stuff they enjoy that's not within halacha.

I see what you're saying. Now that I'm reading other responses, Shabbos candles do sound more meaningful and simpler than taking the day off. I do know secular people that specifically won't eat pig or seafood, I feel like it is a very identifying behavior.

miami85

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 6:14 pm

1) no pig products
2) Observe Shabbos in some way.
3) Marry Jewish

mille

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 6:34 pm

2cents wrote:

Such an interesting topic! Reading through the answers, I'm so surprised that so many are including 'honoring parents'. Can someone clarify why this would make it on to the list and what expectations you would have if your otd DC committed to it?

Is it meant as a self-serving, catch-all clause? Like, "if you marry her/him, it would dishonor and upset me, and you promised to keep kibud av?"
Because that's not fair, and it's not even halachic. Honoring parents, halachically, comes down to a series of superficial actions that you may or may not do (stand up when they enter, help to feed and clothe them when they need help, not contradicting them even when you don't agree and have no intention of obeying them...). A person doesn't have to comply with all of his parents' wishes.

I'm having difficulty figuring out why this would make someone's list and what the hope and expectations would be.

For me, the reason I include it is because I feel that, for an OTD person, the mitzvot bein adam l'chavero are more meaningful and more important. The general gist of these mitzvot is "be a good person" - it's a general morality that doesn't really involve God, only peripherally.

Honoring one's parents isn't meant to be a catch-all as you describe. What I would mean is, understand that we have a different religious outlook as you, and when you are with us, please respect that. Don't make a fuss when we go out to a kosher restaurant (p.s., don't make a fuss because we're gonna pay for it, too, because we're your parents after all! Wink

), just because you don't keep kosher. Don't get upset if we invite you to religious holidays (but feel free to say no - but we still have to offer because we want our family together for yomim tovim!). Don't try to convince us to give up our practices just because you do.

And, in turn, at least personally for me as a hypothetical parent to an OTD child - I will respect you. I will not force you to do anything. I will not look down on you and criticize you. I understand that you're an adult and must make your own decisions, even when they differ from mine. IMO kibud av v'im is a mitzvah in this case of respect - and one that I would fully intend on reciprocating.

So maybe I'm saying I'd ask for the "spirit" of kibud av v'im rather than the literal halachic definition. But we're also talking about an OTD person here, how much are you really expecting them to follow of anything halachic, even something abstract like kibud av v'im?

mille

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 6:41 pm

I'll also add - I really like the suggestion some have made about making Shabbat special. I think it's very prudent to phrase any of these positively and NOT focusing on restrictions. So even if you light candles then go watch TV, or have a Shabbat meal while texting on your phone, or going to Chabad for friday night dinner at your university, just because it's a free meal... SOMETHING to make Shabbat special, I like that. It's still a Jewish connection, and that's what I'd want to try to foster in my OTD child.

amother

Papaya

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 10:40 pm

My brother is OTD.... if my Mothers saw this question she would cry hysterically
He would not keep shabbos cuz he works. He would not eat real kosher but I imagine he doesn't eat pork or shellfish
For someone who does not believe or care so much in God, asking him to daven, make shabbos special, etc is silly to them. I think it would be better to ask them not to do negative sins like eating pork, transgrssing TH in a major way,

5mom

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 11:48 pm

penguin wrote:

Sorry to be so harsh, but this kind of story offends me.

First, the facts are unlikely. Lebanon has mines on its border with Syria, not Israel. Army patrols don't just leave men behind, either.

Second, the theology is shaky. Why does Dani get saved here? How do you know that the jeep wasn't full of religious soldiers? And if it was? Does that change your conclusions? If all the soldiers who were killed kept halacha, then by the logic of this story teller, the less you do the better.

This type of story minimizes the suffering of the righteous and ultimately makes a mockery of hashgacha pratis. I know that some people like this sort of stuff, but it's damaging in the long term.

Temilia

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 11:51 pm

1. Light candles/ make Friday night meaningful to you- put technology away focus on family and friends-introspect.
2. Marry Jewish/ go to mikvah before your wedding.
3. Call me once a week

amother

Violet

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 12:31 am

from a friend who is no longer that religious herself:

-maaser - it's consistent, positive and charity
-no pork
-marry jewish

amother

Forestgreen

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 1:52 am

We are in this situation now. It's very painful and stressful to put it mildly. DS is almost 20 and still lives at home but not around much.
1) We have asked DS to respect our home (kosher, shabbos, etc) and keep any evidence of non kosher activity out of our home.
2) We want him to marry Jewish.
3) have a shabbos seudah

I don't think it is effective to ask a young adult to observe Halacha for YOU. They are selfish at this age and asserting independence. But what do I know, we are no where near the light at the end of this tunnel - DS told us today he wants to get a tattoo. HaShem help us! Crying

shevi82

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 5:13 am

I would say Tefillin for a boy.
It's relatively easy, makes you remember once a day who you are and where you come from.

HonesttoGod

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 10:33 am

1) Marry Jewish
2) No outright non-kosher food (such as pig shellfish etc)
3) Shul on Y"K.

pointyshoes

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 1:00 pm

Marry Jewish
Keep shabbos
Keep taharas hamishpacha