Discovered my DD is OTD…Need guidance…

amother

Jean

Tue, Apr 18 2023, 8:19 am

amother Broom wrote:

actually having gone through this myself in some ways I think the pain is worse. there were times I was jealous of parents that lost their child when they were so pure as opposed to the unspeakable pain we went through watching our once pure beautiful child turn into something opposite of what he was.
the pain and grief is real and ongoing.
However, in the long run there is hope and we learned to see the beauty in our child no matter where he is holding in life. we have a warm and open relationship and know that he (and we) had to go through this and have grown tremendously through this nisayon.

I have been through both experiences and in some ways the child going otd is worse bc it’s a choice. And although I will always love my child no matter what, his behavior and appearance is not very lovable, while the one I lost didn’t ever challenge me personally. They are both excruciating nisyonos, that is certain.

amother

Antiquewhite

Tue, Apr 18 2023, 8:27 am

amother Jean wrote:

Going OTD is worse than dying? I really can’t relate to that.

amother

Tue, Apr 18 2023, 9:23 am

My DD was an angry child. She was diagnosed with a chronic syndrome at the age of 13 and was very difficult to manage after that. Our relationship is not as good as what I have with my other daughters but I try very hard to maintain one.
She is very opinionated (misguided) and I see she is influenced by her friends at work and by social media.
So far I have not let on that I know. But I am afraid to tell DH because he may not be able to keep it in. So I have to keep a lot of secrets.
I will follow up by trying to reach out to the experts and hope and pray for further guidance.

amother

Tue, Apr 18 2023, 9:26 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Not an expert. But my thoughts are:

1. Do Not reveal you know anything.
As long as DD is trying to keep it a secret,
She will not go too far.

2. It is great that she is living at home. DD is
Trying to hide this from you, so won't go too far.

3. Strengthen your relationship. Say " I love you."

4. Look to compliment her mitzvah observance,
Can be Odom l'chaveiro.

You do so much chessed.

You have a Lev Tov.

You bake the best cookies.

I try…! I see the importance of this attitude. Not always easy though, but I try!

amother

Lightgreen

Tue, Apr 18 2023, 9:32 am

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

Going OTD is worse than dying? I really can’t relate to that.

She said she went through both types of nisyonos so why would you doubt what she wrote?
I am dealing with a struggling teen now. The pain is indescribable. Don’t judge if you haven’t been there. If you haven’t dealt with both painful circumstances, don’t try to preach.
And what is reality for one person might not be the reality for another but each person’s emotions are real.

amother

NeonOrange

Tue, Apr 18 2023, 1:39 pm

amother Lightgreen wrote:

May you never know and be able to relate to these situations.

I agree with Antiquewhite. One of our DCs isn’t frum anymore and I respect their path. It is ridiculous to compare this to dying! My DC is a good person with fantastic middos, better than many of the staunchly frum people I encounter.

amother

Plum

Tue, Apr 18 2023, 1:41 pm

amother Lightgreen wrote:

May you never know and be able to relate to these situations.

I would say the same thing back to you.

My brother died when he was relatively young and there is absolutely nothing that is as devastating to a parent - or at least a parent who isn't a fanatic.

May you never know the agony of burying your child versus having a child who might be following a different path but who you continue to be able to be with - to have a relationship with - to enjoy his children.

Phoebe31

Tue, Apr 18 2023, 2:51 pm

I read through everyone's replies and was surprised that not one person stood up for the daughter, why are you assuming she is OTD, many people struggle with the nisayon of using their phone on shabbos, it is a real addiction. I would not jump to OTD just because she is using data... I would tell you not to say anything to her about being OTD, it will push her even further away.

Also, you said she is 24 and living at home because she cannot afford to live on her own, does she have any plans to move out eventually? Is she saving up? 24 is an adult, she is grown up, does she have direction in her life?

amother

Lightgreen

Tue, Apr 18 2023, 3:31 pm

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

I have OTD siblings I know that we don’t wish them dead chas veshalom.

No one was wishing anyone dead- ever.
You are trying to make a point by being dramatic but you need to stick with true facts and feelings.
The discussion was about the pain caused by one’s child going off the derech. We were also discussing the pain felt when one’s child dies.
Both situations are things you have not dealt with- with your own child so you have no right to judge another person’s feelings.

amother

Jean

Tue, Apr 18 2023, 7:52 pm

amother Plum wrote:

I didn’t want to continue but since you were initially responding to me, I will add:

You are entitled to your feelings but you have no right to invalidate or question mine. I never, ever said I wished my child dead - chas v’shalom! - and it is extremely inappropriate of you to imply that I did. You don’t know any details of what I’ve been through and when I say I found certain aspects of my child going otd more difficult, what gives you the right to question or judge me, or make such horrible accusations? Losing a sibling is horrible, but it is not the same as a child; the same goes for having a child who is otd vs a sibling. Unfortunately having one doesn’t negate having the other. May you never know from either one. And please don’t respond if you are going to insult me again.

amother

Broom

Wed, Apr 19 2023, 2:56 am

amother Plum wrote:

I think what you are confused about is what it means when a child goes off the derech. sometimes (I dare say in the minority of cases) its just a life choice and they proceed to live a productive life albeit on a different path. but in many (most?) cases its nothing like that. often these children ( using the term not based on their age) are totally dysfunctional, on drugs, alcoholic, homeless, suicidal, gender confusion, self harming, harming others just to name a few possibilities. they are not living a life you imagine where they just up one day and say, hey, I 'd like to go to college, get married, have children, just not to be religious. and their religiously fanatic parents cut off the relationship because not being frum is the end of the relationship.

amother

Azure

Wed, Apr 19 2023, 5:31 am

amother White wrote:

Do you have a child like this?
I hope not, and
maybe it’s just my own personal pain; but these sort of comments come across to me as preachy, and oblivious to, or unaccepting of the parents’ grief.
Losing a child spiritually vs losing a child physically —parents grieve both. Let’s allow that.

A parent can grieve and love at the same time. During the grieving process we need to remember that our kids still are our kids. They still take a lot of the Chinuch they got ay home with them. Grieving can rob your ability to see the good in your child. That's why it was written. Noone said that it doesn't hurt.

amother

Azure

Wed, Apr 19 2023, 5:37 am

amother Broom wrote:

Sorry, but you are talking of kids who are challenged and need help. Religion is the smallest of the problem in this issue. Those kids I would not 'lable' as OTD.

amother

Periwinkle

Wed, Apr 19 2023, 5:47 am

24 is a fully grow adult. Sure, it's painful that her life decisions don't align with yours, but this thread has all the drama...thought we were discussing an otd 14 year old. In any case, I find it more concerning that she doesn't have the wherewithal to move out on her own yet.

amother

Azure

Wed, Apr 19 2023, 5:52 am

amother Lightgreen wrote:

May you never know and be able to relate to these situations.

I have a kid with mental health isdues who went OTD. I was dancing at a wedding. With 3 mothers who have lost their kids to illness, terror attack and car accident. I'm thankfull to H' that I only need to deal with mental health and otd. Yes, people look, comment,... but I have a child to hug and I have hope!

amother

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 12:47 pm

CPenzias wrote:

I'm sorry that you can't discuss with your husband. That adds a whole nother layer and it must be really hard.

Yes. He has a tendency to not hold back. I sometimes nearly tell him but I am afraid of the repercussions.
In the meantime I am not letting on to my DD that I know. Life goes on. I seem the same on the outside but inside is another story…