Do you believe in the supporting?

LovesHashem

Sat, Aug 19 2023, 10:28 am

amother Brickred wrote:

This is beautiful

I had some time to think about it and decided that the stress of being fully responsible financially for a family was something that was too much for me.

I don't mind living on a lower standard but I felt very strongly that being home with my babies and working part time when they are a little older etc is more important than kollel.

And I was fully supported by my mentors and rabbanim in seminary that that was a perfectly fine life to live and it wasn't "second class" or something.

Alumeni from my seminary are all very different, I think it's because we weren't given this idea of what your life needs to look like, we were given information and values to make decisions ourselves and weren't taught there's only one right way.

I went into dating looking for someone who was going to learn, and understood when we have our first child they are responsible financially and may have to leave kollel.

I had no parental support. We bought almost everything for our apartment ourselves. We got a few gifts and some help with a few items but overall we bought it all with our own money and wedding cash gifts.

amother

Sat, Aug 19 2023, 6:21 pm

amother Yarrow wrote:

On a personal note, I grew up in a home where my father was in kollel for many years, and I resented it. I wanted to get married and my husband will support the family. Oh how I wished.

But when I was in shidduchim, people told me that if I say I want a "working boy", that looks bad. I will just get a third-class boy. Instead, I got the "top learner" that my father "hand-picked" for me.

Fast forward 13 years. I am still supporting my husband. It's, what can I say, complicated.

I am sure many other girls/women share my experience, which is why this yacht won't reverse course so easily.

Same position.

amother

Gray

Sat, Aug 19 2023, 6:28 pm

amother Yarrow wrote:

Which part did you resent growing up?

amother

Burlywood

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 5:22 am

Depends what you mean by "support" and how old the couple is, and at what stage of their professional development.

DS is getting married young, because we encouraged it. His kallah has a job with potential but isn't earning so much right now. We have committed to a certain amount each month because no way that they can make ends meet while DS is in kollel, which is also something we highly encourage. The support we're offering is actually less than we're paying now for his yeshiva and related expenses, so it's not at all painful for us, but that's parenthetic. We would have given the money anyhow.

DS is brilliant and multi-talented but isn't interested in long time learning. We anticipate his being self-supporting in five years or so, and we aren't committing to anything more than that.

Chayalle

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 5:26 am

PinkFridge wrote:

You're right, and yet, you can't deny what's been institutionalized and it makes things harder. Many shadchanim focus their energies on the low-hanging fruit, cookie-cutter 5+ years support type. That's ok, they're not the ones who'll be zoche to make your kids' shidduchim.

they certainly were not zoche....
Our Rav told us that in his experience, most shidduchim come about thru family and friends, not Shadchanim. This was definitely true for us....

watergirl

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 8:48 am

I’m finding it’s so ironic that the “good boys” learn, implying that working boys are not good… But they are the supporting the yeshivas. Since when is one part of the Yissachar/Zevulen partnership less “good”? This rhetoric is so sad.

amother

Yarrow

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 10:17 am

amother Gray wrote:

Which part did you resent growing up?

As weird as it sounds, I didn't resent not having enough money. I resented the fact that there was zero recognition of the obligation of a man to support his wife. Growing up, I knew that outside of my family women were more taken care of by the men in their life. But within my family, there was no recognition of such a responsibility. I felt resentful because something was taken away from me that was rightfully (al pi Torah) mine, my mother's, and all women's.

watergirl

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 10:44 am

amother Yarrow wrote:

This is interesting to me. How did you know this was the norm in non-kollel homes? At what age were you aware of this?

amother

DarkCyan

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 12:13 pm

amother Yarrow wrote:

This is interesting and tells me something very different. I wouldn’t be surprised if the women in your life weren’t respected and taken care of as much as they should have been, nothing to do with learning.

amother

DarkCyan

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 12:18 pm

watergirl wrote:

My impression of actual Yissachar/Zevulun is that age makes a difference, and I think possibly the shevet did not start at such a young age, but rather as they were older.
But I’d have to refresh the meforshim, I don’t remember.
Those supporting yeshivos aren’t usually in their twenties or even thirties, and often left yeshiva closer to thirty.
(From what I’ve seen)
Many feel that early twenties is important to be in the environment of the yeshiva, especially before marriage when there is just so much exposure.

amother

Yarrow

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 1:52 pm

watergirl wrote:

This is interesting to me. How did you know this was the norm in non-kollel homes? At what age were you aware of this?

You have to remember that the people who loved me most and who I loved most believed in this system where the woman would work and that was that. It was hard for me to come to the realization that this is not standard. It bothered me that in MY family, with the people I love, women are not taken care of financially, and men just don't acknowledge this at all. This was a mature state, and even when I was in shidduchim, I didn't have the language to describe the feeling. But, looking back, I can say it was there since early teen years

amother

Yarrow

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 1:54 pm

amother DarkCyan wrote:

They were very respected. This was a nuanced feeling. If it were so super obvious, I wouldn't have married into it

amother

Gray

Mon, Aug 21 2023, 2:04 pm

amother Yarrow wrote:

I get that, I grew up knowing it IS the husband's responsibility even if the wife works
My mother worked some years and some she was a sahm
But when I got married I brought in the income and my husband didn't even try
It could be his personality though, not to be responsible