S/o that moment when

amother

Grape

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 10:33 pm

amother IndianRed wrote:

What a brilliant idea! How can I have less kids than I already have? /sarcasm

Reality: We have no idea what will be tomorrow. Will DH strike it rich or lose his job? Will the price of food go up or down? Will real estate in our area soar or stay stable? Will our landlord evict us or will we get an unexpected yerusha and buy extra property? Will we lose food stamps or get section 8?

Since we have no idea we go according to Torah, which tells us that financial predictions are not a good reason to have or not have children.

(If your Daas Torah says otherwise, feel free to follow that ruling.)

Oh please, Daas Torah doesn't tell anybody to have children when there isn't any money to buy food. If you have to "borrow" money, in other words steal money from your kids , don't keep having babies it's common sense. OR don't tell your kids you're borrowing the money tell them, you're taking it. If they're old enough for you to be taking their money they're old enough to hear the truth from you.

I didn't tell anybody to have less kids then they already have. In more words, I said if you don't have enough money to pay your grocery bills, get another job or look for another income stream don't use your kids as an option to pay your bills or definitely don't lie about it. If you don't have more options to increase your income definitely don't keep having babies.
This is my opinion and my experience so stop letting out all your insecurities on my post.

amother

IndianRed

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 10:51 pm

amother Grape wrote:

Many people have enough money when their kids are babies. It's when they get older that it's a problem.

I do borrow money from my kids, but I keep a careful record and if they want their money I make that an urgent priority above paying any other bill on time.

amother

Springgreen

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 10:52 pm

amother IndianRed wrote:

This exactly. It’s never an issue when they want to use their money for something.

amother

Cantaloupe

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 10:57 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

I sometimes borrow from my kids, but only for cash. like I don't have cash on me can you lend me cash and I'll go to the bank later and pay you back.

Is this a problem?

Not at all. You're asking them for it and then paying back.

amother

Feverfew

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 10:59 pm

amother Springgreen wrote:

My kids have zero clue about our financial situation. BH we are not poor but with the economy today and the exorbitant cost of living a frum lifestyle, our expenses are sky high. I use their money and plan to pay them back. I don’t feel the need to tell them. They’re just kids and there’s no need for them to feel anxious about money for even one second.

You “plan” to pay them back ?

You better pay them back .

mommy3b2c

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 11:01 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

I sometimes borrow from my kids, but only for cash. like I don't have cash on me can you lend me cash and I'll go to the bank later and pay you back.

Is this a problem?

No. I do this all the time . My cleaning lady is leaving or they are going to the barber and I don’t have cash on me , etc…

They give me the cash and I give it back to them later in the day . That’s not damaging to kids and causes them no anxiety . It has nothing to do with anything .

shifyshifi

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 11:24 pm

I give my parents money all the time same with my in laws. Why shouldn't I they raised me and fed me, put me in Good schools I am forever in debt to them. Tzedaka starts from home!

I have lots of gratitude to them when they offer to pay me back if it's a small sum I don't take it from them.

amother

Geranium

Sun, Sep 03 2023, 4:16 am

shifyshifi wrote:

You missed the point and thank you for invalidating our experiences

amother

Vermilion

Sun, Sep 03 2023, 5:50 am

Yes, my parents very often borrowed cash when I was a teen and didn't always pay it back. And it was uncomfortable. But more than that, my mother signed us up for a joint credit card and then when my parents declared bankruptcy (after a period of unemployment by one parent) my card and information got rolled into that. Right as I was starting university. It was a huge mess and I was left for years with credit issues.

It took me forever to get over it, mostly because my parents refused to discuss it with me. It was a problem to pay for university, get loans, etc..

If we had some communication I think it would have helped. But even as an adult if I mentioned it they always turned it around on me, about how difficult that period of time was.

I have since become somewhat of a super saver and fairly paranoid about money. And we earn a good living . I'm getting better as I get bet older and I have tried to teach my kids reasonable spending habits. But it's tough.

Trademark

Sun, Sep 03 2023, 6:12 am

Btw halachically the money might belong to the parents, as long as the children eat at their parents.

I'm not saying what's the right way to handle it from a chinuch perspective, but stealing is a strong word.

If some people have literally no money for food and are still feeding the children I don't know if that is so wrong.

amother

Pewter

Sun, Sep 03 2023, 6:24 am

Trademark wrote:

It’s one thing if the parents ask, receive appreciatively and are grateful and commit to paying their kids back as soon as they can. My parents did that and while it was very stressful to hear about their financial stress, I don’t resent them for borrowing money from me. I’ve happily given maaser money to them recently to pay some medical bills they can’t afford.

It’s quite a different experience to have the money just taken from you without your consent or even notification and have your parents not thank you or even acknowledge what they did.

amother

Cappuccino

Sun, Sep 03 2023, 8:02 am

shifyshifi wrote:

that is very nice - but of course its a totally different story since you are an adult and you are willing and able to give.

amother

Hotpink

Sun, Sep 03 2023, 9:12 am

My parents always "borrowed" money from us. They would use it to pay the mortgage, the grocery bills ECT but they would also go on vacation, buy new clothes and jewelry for themselves. My brother just paid their monthly mortgage for a few months and now has no spending money for yeshiva in EY. He worked so so hard for that money. It's not fair to take money from a child. Borrow from a friend's or take out more debt. There's really no excuse for it.