AMA I am anti-babysitter and CIO

Cheiny

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 6:23 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

I might have to say shehecheyanu, but I agree with fleetwood, and I HAVE read through the entire thread. The way the OP was worded, and in many other threads throughout, the OP did NOT make a differentiation. Even her apology wasn’t an apology. This thread is hurtful to many.

And you think this is the only thread where people have differing opinions? OP is only one person here. So she has a different point of view… so?

amother

Dill

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 6:27 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Please show me where exactly she said that.

There is much more of a choice in the matter than women like to claim.
Prioritizing having a stay-at-home parent is more of a choice than woman like to pretend.
Everyone had the choice to at least try to make it work. Few do.
But be honest, how many frum couples even attempt that.
I sincerely believe that choosing to send a 6 week old infant to a babysitter so that your husband can stay in kollel is neglectful.

I got through the first 3 pages. There were more but I’ll stop. This was in 3 out of 32 pages. Direct quotes from OP. Each of them screams I AM JUDGING ALL OF YOU WHO SEND TO BABYSITTERS. you didn’t try to make it work.

amother

Dill

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 6:33 pm

Dearest OP
I understand. Sending to a babysitter definitely isn’t ideal. And people tell me they send to a nonjew because then they can pick up at 5:00 daily, even Fridays, while they finish work at 2:00. I believe most of us don’t do that: I personally go straight from babysitter to work, and straight from work to babysitter because I want my baby with me at all times I can. I come home and play with baby, then make a quick supper for the rest of the fam and then play with baby some more. I’m forever with baby besides when I work. I may even pay more attention over the day to baby than some people who don’t work. I’d love to stay home with baby, and I stayed home till baby was over 3 months old. But I can’t afford it. Trust me I tried. I know many many others like me.
This thread seems to just scream I judge all of you, you didn’t even try to make it work: I lived on bread and water so I can be home with my babies so you can too. Sorry, but that’s not what life is all about. Let’s be respectful of everyone else’s lives please. Thanks

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 6:36 pm

amother Springgreen wrote:

Huh?
You think Yocheved's plan was to leave her kids with babysitters?

Her plan was to put Moshe in a basket in the Nile. And hope that Hashem will take care of him.

The medrash says that the women of Mitzrayim gave birth in the fields and left them there. Hashem made a neis and there were two rocks that took care of the babies, one gave honey and the other milk.

These children, the children who were the products of bitachon and mesiras nefesh, were the ones who actually left Mitzrayim.

If not for those mothers who literally abandoned their babies in the field, we all would not be here today.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 6:44 pm

Cheiny wrote:

You forgot to mention the “if there is no other choice,” and the, “Try to minimize it as much as possible,” last time, didn’t you.

I’d bet you might have not gotten the rest of his remarks accurately either… context is everything.

This is nasty and uncalled for, I didn't "forget" to mention it, I cant write everything in every post. I did clarify in a later post, didn't I? Anyway, I thought it was obvious that it's not the ideal, no sane person thinks so.

But unless you happen to have mon coming from shamayim, a woman who is a kollel wife has to work, no? I thought that was obvious and was superfluous to mention.

Everyone wants to minimize the time their baby is by a babysitter - I thought that was obvious.

Anyway, did YOU ask a shayla which is better? I did, and many of my friends did. We asked big people. You might be surprised at the answers we got. All of them prioritized the mental health of the mother (if that was the question) over the so called benefits of having baby home full time with the mother.

Its strange that you seem to understand what Rabbi Matisyahu Salamon meant to say better than the people who heard him and spoke to him.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 6:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

No. I said many times that the harmful effects on the baby are exactly the same whether you’re leaving them so you can support a kollel husband, or literally put bread on the table, or get a manicure.

removed

fleetwood

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 6:50 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

Hey..we sometimes agree..but are always civil...thanks!!

Cheiny

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 6:51 pm

amother Dill wrote:

As suspected, she never said what you accused her of saying in your post that I quoted.

You claimed that she said, “I did it and so can everyone else!” And you claimed that she said she’s judging everyone. So show us…

She specifically said, time and time again, that what she takes issue with, is people not even trying to come up with alternative plans.

Why the need to exaggerate and put words in her mouth? Your conclusions and interpretations of her implications are your own.

Cheiny

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 6:54 pm

amother Royalblue wrote:

Then I guess you’re saying we should all do the same now…

Cheiny

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 7:02 pm

amother Royalblue wrote:

Ever hear the saying, “Thou protest too much?” Your need to repeatedly explain and justify yourself is coming from within you, not because of what OP or I or anyone else said. If you have full belief and confidence that your way is the right way, you shouldn’t feel the need to get so offended by opposing views or keep fighting…

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 7:05 pm

Cheiny wrote:

I was a SAHM, so try again.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 7:18 pm

Cheiny wrote:

It’s strange that you concluded that because I specifically saw her say that she has no problem if someone has exhausted other options and still has no other way.

This is actually what the OP wrote:

amother OP wrote:

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 7:26 pm

amother Cornsilk wrote:

I LITERALLY CANNOT BELIEVE GROWN WOMEN ARE ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER A MOTHER IS THE OPTIMAL CAREGIVER FOR HER BABY

Reposting this because 33 pages is far too much time spent on nothing
As I said earlier
You do you, stop judging each other, both sides
Live and let live
People are allowed to be in the wrong or right. Hashem has a plan for all of us no matter what we believe in

Ema of 5

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 9:36 pm

Cheiny wrote:

I’ve said several times that there are many women out there who do not require the extra income that they earn working (in fact they barely bring in more money than they have to pay out to their babies’ caretakers) and they readily admit it; they simply don’t want to be home with baby every day, it’s boring, they need to get dressed up every day and have somewhere to go… yes, for some it’s a choice when there clearly are other options.

Then there are others who could make out just fine without the second income, especially for the year or two when baby is very young; but again they choose not to because they want the higher standard of living and refuse to sacrifice it for even that year or two.

We’ve said many times as well that if someone has exhausted other options and has no choice, that’s something entirely different.

I personally agree that the first two sets of women are being selfish and aren’t putting baby before their own desires. And I’m not talking forever, I’m talking for at least the first year or two.

For those who can comfortably put off going to work until the child is in school but choose not to for frivolous reasons, I agree they’re making a mistake.

The fact that it’s by choice or not by choice is what makes the difference whether or not it’s abusive?

Ema of 5

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 9:44 pm

Cheiny wrote:

And you think this is the only thread where people have differing opinions? OP is only one person here. So she has a different point of view… so?

I think you are being purposely obtuse. It’s not the differing opinions that’s hurtful, and you know that very well. It’s the WORDING that was, and continues to be, hurtful.

amother

Jean

Thu, Oct 05 2023, 9:50 pm

That thread was in very poor taste. That OP is so negligent and naive. She's living a comfortable life, where her husband brings home 300k!!! She has the luxury of staying home, and claiming it was her choice!
Her Choice??? If she would say- I choose to live in poverty, so that I could be home with my kids, that would make sense.
I chose the same as OP, though I wasn't as lucky as her to have my DH bring in a decent income.

This is called bragging about her good fortune, while being judgemental of others who are not as fortunate as her.