Where would we fit in E"Y?

dilego

Tue, Feb 13 2024, 11:13 am

Let me explain something about the Aliyah and citizenship.
Toshav Keva is a non jew who perminantly lives here in ey.
You have oleh chadadh and then there is a small paragraph that sais you can renounce your israeli citizenship that makes you into a legal citizen with workpermit and a regular teudat zehut and rights to vote in municipal elections but not national ie knesset and you get a dichui sorry dont know the english word for it for every half year and it has to be renewed. But children born after aliyah are automatic regular citizens with all the rights and duties.
Student visas is something else again.

amother

Magnolia

Tue, Feb 13 2024, 12:03 pm

Mizpe Yericho is not secular with a few frum Americans... it is very serious Chardal. And I know some very serious right wing YU types who moved there recently. And it may be a great option for you. But it's a yishuv. Not city like at all.

What about Mitzpe Nevo in Maale Adumim? That's a nice Chardal community with a mix of Americans and Israelis in a city.

In Yerushalayim I think Har Choma could be a great option. There is a serious Chardal community based around the yeshiva there. And they just opened a new chardal elementary school. But I don't know specifically how many Americans live there.

amother

Moonstone

Tue, Feb 13 2024, 12:05 pm

amother OP wrote:

Thank you all so much -- this is really the "aliyah for dummies" advice that I need and I'm really grateful!

We will look into R'Haber/Netzach. It sounds wonderful, though I'm a little concerned that RBS is a recreation of the tristate area in a bubble.

If we go, we want citizenship and to have our kids contribute via army/service/etc.. If their peers will be, it's only fair that they do, too, in their own ways.

One of my biggest fears is what a poster above said about not fitting and then things falling apart for us/our kids. We are considering aliyah dafka because we find we don't fit in an "in-town" scene (anyplace intellectually that we'd want is too into the Western, upper-middle-class, materialist lifestyle and anyplace religiously what we'd want is too anti-intellectual and closed-minded).

Anywhere in Yerushalayim that would be a fit? We're city people so that just makes sense to me, but I know nothing of the different neighborhoods/school systems.

Netzach is designed not to be a bubble. The kids have plenty of Israeli classmates and speak a fluent Hebrew and have a bagrut education. Many schools are bubbles but Netzach was part of an answer to this problem and question. Wether it will be or not, it’s a newer school. We are very happy there. Netzach families are all pro Israel. About 50/50 want their kids to serve in the army. We’re in the service half, about half of the Israelis in the from my dc grades had or have fathers or brothers serving. I know many families in the school similar to your description.

No place in israel is like in town! Don’t worry about standards, generally there isn’t much in the school. Some neighborhoods and schools do so pick one that doesn’t. We’re from OOT too. Live near the mercaz ha’ir and you’ll get all the city life you want. I live on the other end because I done like city life.

amother

Tue, Feb 13 2024, 12:28 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

Oh, that sounds wonderful! What areas should I look in for housing?

amother

Lightblue

Tue, Feb 13 2024, 1:12 pm

What about Rehovot? I think it has everything you are looking for - it's a city, not an Anglo bubble, but there are Anglos. There is a shul - Chatam - which has working chareidim and they have their own (elementary) schools called Etz Chaim (for boys and girls) which are a bit more open than regular BY/ chadarim. There is also a more Zionist community called Bermans.

I saw NBN are having a Zoom about Rehovot (and a series for frum people) in a few weeks' time. And the girls' school principal is speaking on the girls' chinuch program.

https://www.nbn.org.il/its-shayech/

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Feb 13 2024, 2:06 pm

amother Lightblue wrote:

I was just about to post this.

amother

Moonstone

Tue, Feb 13 2024, 2:31 pm

amother OP wrote:

Oh, that sounds wonderful! What areas should I look in for housing?

If you want a more city life, near the mercaz ha’ir. If you’re looking for a neighborhood with a specific flair, we can direct you. Let us know what you’re looking for. We live now in a slightly more American charedi neighborhood but will be moving to a more Israeli and tzioni neighborhood. Beit Shemesh has every type of neighborhood, you just find your fit.

amother

Oxfordblue

Tue, Feb 13 2024, 10:14 pm

amother Clover wrote:

The problem is that Israel is very striated. There's no real JPF like you describe. You are either charedi with no Internet etc (or lying about it) or you are dati-leumi serving in the army. You can try to live in an American bubble like rbs or givat hamivtar but eventually the bubble bursts and you don't fit in anywhere.

Signed,
Just moved back to America after over a decade in an American bubble.

Uh, I'm Charedi in israel and have never lied about having internet.

Told dds Beis Yaakov school straight out that I have it, they just asked if we have a filter.

My son's cheder never asked.

But in the rest of the sense, we're happy to identify with the community. I assume you didn't, but it's nothing to do with internet.

amother

Coral

Thu, Feb 15 2024, 5:57 am

We are in a similar position, we are frum and have degrees and good professions with non jewish companies but the Jewish community around us is mostly chareidi and have no further education and is quite narrow minded. They are lovely but it's so hard to fit in. We are moving to RBS pG this Summer and I hope it will be better there. I've heard Harish is nice but rbs would be an easier place to start.

amother

Clover

Thu, Feb 15 2024, 9:05 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

I used Internet as an example of charedi vs JPF American culture, but there were a lot of things in her OP that show she wouldn't fit into charedi society. Not into kollel, yes into secular culture, things like that. So I don't think she would be happy to identify with the charedi culture and would have a hard time fitting in.

amother

Thu, Feb 15 2024, 9:27 am

amother Clover wrote:

Yes, I agree — I don’t think full-on charedi is a good fit for us. We want open-minded, professional, but still very devoted to Torah. Do you think the mamach system is a good fit for us? Pros/cons of that route?

amother

Chicory

Thu, Feb 15 2024, 9:43 am

amother OP wrote:

I don't want my kids (boys or girls) to be in the military but I DO want them to contribute and do some kind of national service (is that even a possibility for boys?)
Kollel as a lifestyle choice is not something we're raising them to aspire to (no judgment, just not our derech... though who can control their kids' futures?)
I'm fine with having to "homeschool" English/secular subjects, but I don't want them in a school that will close them off from attending university/professional careers OR disparage that path.
We want a strong Torah education that is also intellectual and open-minded.
I don't want to end up in a re-created NY in town community. We want less materialism and keeping up with the Joneses.

I have no direct experience with the Mamach system, but from what I've heard, it's a niche market, so to say. Meaning, a small fringe phenomenon in the chareidi education system. There was a thread here some time that suggested that being in the Mamach system affects shidduch choices negatively.

OP, from what you write, I think you and your family could do beautifully in the more right wing part of dati leumi.
Secular education including university, combined with Torah learning, are absolutely doable there. Internet is not an issue. There are communities that are not focussing on materialism and are deep into Torah and frum life. You'd be right inside a whole sector of Israeli society, not on the fringes of another one.
But - you'd have to wrap your head around army service for the boys and, most likely, national service for the girls. That would be part of the parcel. Plus a hearty dose of Zionism and different head coverings for you and dh Wink

amother

Moonstone

Thu, Feb 15 2024, 9:53 am

amother Chicory wrote:

Netzach described above is mamach. There are 75,000 children in mamach schools across Israel and it’s growing every single year b”h by leaps and bounds.

amother

Thu, Feb 15 2024, 10:10 am

amother Chicory wrote:

I've found the thread about Mamach, from a few months ago. There are mixed opinions.

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....30624

Thanks! I’ve been frantically googling so read that one already — very helpful. I’m okay being a little fringe as long as there are tens of thousands other there with me. I’ve already reconciled myself with the fact that many people won’t want to be meshadech with our family for one reason or another. Zehu. Hashem had a great plan for all of my children and I don’t want anybody who doesn’t want us.

It seems like a really good secular + Torah education that is warm and progressive in education methods (vs an old school cheider). I’m okay with the school families being a range. I think there are benefits to not having to be cookie cutter.

amother

Moonstone

Thu, Feb 15 2024, 11:21 am

amother OP wrote:

Sorry it’s 20,000-25,000 children. Busy day! This is the website, I was told the numbers are out of date and I see they don’t have listed two more of the mamach schools I know of yet because the site isn’t updated very frequently. https://www.mamah.org.il/ many of us also redefine ourselves after aliyah.