How to tell your neighbor no

amother

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 1:21 pm

I have family members, neighbors, and acquaintances like this.
They don't know how to take know for an answer.
If you do say no, they demand to know a reason, and it has to be a reason that they personally approve of.
Or they call, and if you don't answer, they'll keep calling incessantly.
Same with the doorbell.
One thing I have realized is that a person like this, or a person who asks for favors that go over the boundaries of chutzpah, do so because they are desperate. Desperate for what? I'm not sure. It varies. Sometimes they're desperate for the item or service they are asking for. Sometimes there's something deeper than that going on, and what they're actually desperate for is to prove to themselves that they are loved, that someone cares enough about them to do this for them.
That doesn't mean it's your place, or obligation to fill that need. You must firmly set limits because if you give them a finger, they want a hand.
I have a family member who once desperately needed a favor from my husband. It was a favor that would have taken most of the day, and it was the busiest season of the year for him at work. She had a ready answer: "He can tell his boss that he has to take a day off from work for a family emergency. I need his help and this is a family emergency." I was so shocked I refused to even give him that message, to preserve my family's dignity.
PS the help that she needed was a direct result of her negligence and irresponsibility, and she wanted my husband to pick up the pieces for her.

shlomitsmum

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 1:25 pm

bubbebia wrote:

I'm sorry your neighbor is taking such horrible advantage of you. It's wrong and her family and life is not your responsibility. But I know how you feel. At least if you are there there is some semblance of supervision for the kids. But to leave them alone in the apartment with only an intercom for supervision is dangerous on so many levels. The problem is: where is the line for wanting to make sure the kids are safe and not being taken advantage of? It's a very tricky thing. Clearly she has issues but it isn't your responsibility to compensate for her. If you don't take a stand you will continue to enable her and she will never get her act together.

The thing is that you have to start saying "no". Never easy. Don't give her reasons why you can't do something but just firmly say "sorry, I can't do that right now" or "sorry, I'm all out of that today". Make a list of possible babysitters she can call when she needs to go out. Be aware, however, if she does go out and leaves the kids alone. If she does that it might be time for you to call CPS which can be done anonymously. Above all, the children's safety is the most important.

Excellent advise!
OP you need to learn to be firm and say no . I as a former approval seeker was so into not upsetting people that I was a leech magnet Sad

It actually took me having a very rare big blow out with dh years ago to make me realize that just because someone needs me does not mean I am obligated to them (this is not normal)
So I got a therapist that helped me see that this was typical baggage of abuse .
I don't know what your background is but is never too late to learn to be assertive , it was the best thing I ever did. Wink

Shana_H

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 1:26 pm

amother wrote:

Update: I am sitting and nursing and she has been knocking on the door for the last 5 minutes.
I ignored it until I finally went to answer. She tells me she is desperate and she will only go for an 1.5 and take her baby with her. Stupid me said yes and hate myself for it. I have to learn how to not be a push over. Neighbors are so complicated .

This is why I have no friends! I was sick and tired of being imposed upon! I learned the word NO way later than I should have. I am a compulsive people pleaser, it comes from being adopted, I want people to like me so I never said NO to anything asked of me, that's probably the reason my X was able to get away with all the cr*p he put me thru for as long as he did! I was 35 yrs old b/4 I learned how to say NO! These past 10 years have been the best! That's not to say I won't help out a friend in need, but now I help out on my terms as well, this way I'm not taken advantage of which only ends in resentment and frustration!

anon for this

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 1:36 pm

You can still say no when she drops off her intercom. (If you need a last-minute excuse, you can tell her that you're feeling faint and must lie down). If you won't do that, when she stops by to pick up the intercom you can tell her, "I don't feel comfortable supervising your children by intercome, and I can't do it again. Please don't ask me."

shlomitsmum's suggestion is a good one too. You can tell her that your husband saw or heard the intercom and asked you about it, and told you that he doesn't think it's safe. ("I think he read something about a fire breaking out while the parents were away, and he just doesn't want me to do it anymore"). Just make sure to talk to your DH about it before your neighbor or her DH can, so you can get your stories straight.

Then, the next time she asks you to hold the intercom while she's away, you can say, "I told you that I don't/ DH doesn't feel comfortable with that. Would you like the name of the babysitter I use?"

I wouldn't give the excuse that you're tired because of being postpartum, because then she'll think it's OK to ask in a couple of months.

lkwdmommy

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 1:45 pm

Why do you have to bring DH into this?

Just become all dramatic: Are you kidding?? I just read this crazy about a house that went on fire and one of the kids couldn't get out, etc, etc. I am so spooked - NO WAY can I do this!! I'm a nervous wreck just thinking all day about how I'd be able get my own kids plus the NB out of the house if I need to CH"V. No way am I going to start obsessing over your kids upstairs too.

If she doesn't back off after this, she has serious problems. But don't give in, just keep repeating the story.

lkwdmommy

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 2:38 pm

Barbara wrote:

EmesOrNT wrote:

There was an article in Binah around yom tov time about such a situation. These people will never learn. Your only answer should be no.

What she said.

Any explanations or excuses will be met with objections, as she tries to wear you down.

True. But maybe this way, she will realize what a crazy, reckless thing she is asking. (Ya think?)

rainbow dash

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 3:12 pm

amother wrote:

Knocking on the door for 5 min? Sorry but that's in no way normal.Also being after birth any stress is not good for you. I know. I was put under stress also from such neighbors and other family members after I gave birth and it caused me so much agmachs nefesh.

Try your best to put a stop to it before it gets worse cause sounding from what you write, it will.

Last edited by rainbow dash on Mon, Nov 11 2013, 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

Shana_H

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 4:18 pm

amother wrote:

You just reminded me of what I used to do; For the first five years of my marriage I was either pregnant or nursing a newborn, I disconnected my doorbell by taking the battery out, and taped a very nice note to my front door which read - "The Baby is sleeping, which means I am resting, I will therefore be unable to answer the door, if this is an emergency please pass a note under the door, I will respond when it is convenient to me!" I still got put upon but mostly coz my X didn't have the gumption to say NO!

Dolly Welsh

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 4:35 pm

Every drugstore sells silicone earplugs. When people pound on the door, insert them. They work pretty well. I love them on airplanes.

When you opened that door, even after five minutes, you rewarded her knocking.

Only you know if you care enough about her to help, but it didn't sound like it.

You can take them out if you do indeed want to help the person. It's nice to help, but when you want to.

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 7:41 pm

I have also always been easily taken advantage of and needed lots of coaching in how to say "no". One thing that I have found is to be honest about what I can and cannot to for that person. If there is something that I can say yes to that they need or want, I sandwich the "no" in between telling them what my limits are and what I am willing to do.
It could be something like;

"I am not really able to babysit at night when I am desperate to go to sleep

so I will have to say "no" to that request

but, I would be happy to watch some kids for an hour in the morning if you need to go out."

and also say:
"I would appreciate if you not knock on my door because I might be nursing the baby. Just send me a text and I will answer it when I can."

Barbara

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 7:52 pm

southernbubby wrote:

But there's your problem.

You: "I am desperate to go to sleep."

Her: "Oh, no problem. My youngest 3 are already in bed, and the older 2 will be in bed soon. Just keep the monitor next to you, they won't wake you." "Really, its no different than your kids sleeping in your apartment. Nothing will happen. It will be OK. I really need to go out." "What can I do? I really need to be out. There's no one else to watch them. Besides, its only 8 pm, it's too early for you to sleep."

You're giving her room to argue, and in the end, she will win. The only answer is NO.

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 8:04 pm

You are right Barbara. Sometimes the person does push back with arguments and I often have to finally say that I really cannot do it. I have had to make some things a blanket "no" like driving people to airports or making kallah showers for kallahs who live out of town but are marrying local boys. I do, offer to co-host sheva brachas or get a few people together for a gift certificate but I have to say "no" to being in charge of chassan showers.

I was asked to babysit when a woman needed to use the mikveh and agreed to do it as long as she understood that it was to be a one time thing and not a monthly thing. I also told her not to publicize my "availability". I also have my share of sick people that I visit and when asked to take on more, I decline.

I do see though, that there are times when everyone should try to say "yes" or at least "yes" to that part that they can do to help out. That is what chessed is.

southernbubby

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 8:37 pm

I would say this; I am often in charge of sending out a deli tray or arranging food if someone goes down for shiva. It doesn't matter if it is an advantage taker who is sitting or an appreciative person, if they are sitting, they get a tray from the community and I am often the one who collects the money for it and arranges it.

The other side of the story though is, that I feel that if someone is having elective surgery or a healthy woman with a normal 9 month pregnancy is due to deliver, those people should cook, freeze, and stock up so that they are not dependent on the community. If people want to bring them something, great, but they should not rely on that. The friends and neighbors, though, have a big mitzvah if they do bring over some food or a gift.

Often, mentally ill people are in such distress that they cannot perceive the boundaries of another person. Sometimes the biggest chessed, is the hardest thing to do, which is to be honest with them as to why what they are asking, is too much. I have had that opportunity as well but it is really not easy to tell someone who is already hurting or in distress that they cannot have the help that they feel that they need.

shlomitsmum

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 11:07 pm

I know that telling her that DH is not ok with the intercom thing does not sound like the liberated feminist thing to do Tongue Out

....BUT having a DH speak to her DH might be a reality check for this gal and her husband because bottom line if she is so "desperate" providing the help she needs is her husbands responsibility for HIS kids sake and should not come at your expense.

Hopefully the guy will be receptive and get her help or just tell his wife to leave you alone.... either way is a win win AFAIK Very Happy

Update us

amother

Mon, Nov 11 2013, 11:54 pm

I understand that u can't say no to ur neighbour as u see her often and you feel guilty. But remember u don't want be "guilty for the rest of your life" if something serious happen to her kids. If you say "No" now it will be only a temporary short term guilt but for the good reason.
Try to explain to her in a nice way that u don't want be responsible for anything happens to the kids being alone and to find a baby sitter well in advance as kids life is too precious (kids worth more than few dollars-shekels-pounds) also explain that u feel very tired and busy with your own baby and schedule that u can't manage to "worry" for her kids safety, make her feel bad and make her understand the situation in a nice way.
Don't tell her this when next time she's in a rush to go out and leave u with intercom, call her and invite her over for a little chat about the serious situation of how you feel (maybe if u manage to tell her to text you first for anything she needs as the knocking wakes up the baby, at same time u can text her back with excuses if u can't be bother to borrow certain things). She will eventually get it and appreciate u for her kids safety hopefully.
Good luck!! And let us know Smile