the importance of vaccines!

carrot

Fri, Jun 16 2006, 7:52 pm

OK, I know I said I wouldn't post here anymore but I can't stand to see my words twisted out of shape.

Some simple logic: "Not automatically trusting every doctor" is not equivalent to "automatically not trusting any doctor." (Think about the phrase, "not necessarily.")

Likewise "not every doctor will tell you the whole truth" (possibly because he does not know it) is not equivalent to "all doctors are covering up."

In other words I have nothing against your friendly family doctor. I'm sure he's an honest and sincere individual. I neither can nor wish to give you a reason not to listen to him.

And please do not say I failed to tell you a reason not to vaccinate when I said quite clearly that that was never my goal.

And while I'm at it, could you please stop with the conspiracy theory? Conspiracy theory implies paranoia, that I am imagining a large web of powerful people with malevolent intentions towards me. I never said such a thing. And since we both know that it is a derogatory thing to say, it is not really conducive to open and impersonal debate.

Thanks and have a good Shabbos. I'm stepping out again and trying to stay out this time.

P.S. I am going to read some books this Shabbos that perhaps you would say should only be reserved for those who've been through medical school. But I have a high regard for my own intelligence.

Blossom

Mon, Jun 19 2006, 11:21 am

I have a question. I vaccinated my daughter. I knew I would do it but still wanted to read up on it and after asking my dr. about my concern and reading a little I decided to do it.
My question is, and I'm asking genuinely because I really want to know having been looking into this whole subject. Do parents of unvaccinated kids feel safe letting their children go out in the public? Do you give them anything else, something natural? I'd really like to get some answers. Thanks a bunch

Inspired

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 10:46 am

only1 wrote:

Well what I was always wondering was this. Lets say a man from some third world country comes to visit the States. He was never vaccinated for anything and is carrying a disease in him, that everyone here is vaccinated against. He uses a public toilet and goes on his way. Then a mother brings her little unvaccinated child and the child uses the same toilet, and contracts the disease. Since most children are vaccinated these days, it would not have been a problem for them - but how can these parents have put their child at such risk. Is it not their duty to give the child as much immunity to these diseases as possible??

You areassuming that vaccines are safe. You are assuming that vaccine is simply a guard against disease. The fact is that vaccines cause damage and children occasionally get the disease they are being vaxed against. Be informed, and then make the desicion.

Inspired

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 10:49 am

amother wrote:

Understandably,
those who vaccinate will strongly defend the view that vaccinating is good for their child(ren),
and those who don't vaccinate will strongly defend the view that vaccinating is not good for their (children).

It is human nature for one to defend one's decision. To defend the opposing view is hypocritical, of course. So naturally this is a heated debate, as each one aims to defend the rightness of her choice.

And then there are those of us who simply see both sides and either because of the advice of a rav, rebbe, or peer pressure or our own fear choose one. The only thing I will agrue against is one sidedness.

willow

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 10:57 am

[

[/quote]

And then there are those of us who simply see both sides and either because of the advice of a rav, rebbe, or peer pressure or our own fear choose one. The only thing I will agrue against is one sidedness.[/quote]

I def agree as I am genuinely trying to figure out what will be best for my baby. So I am very openmined to both sides. But as I read through this discussion I find it interesting how calmly the anti-vaccinators are laying out their information and how angry and defensively the vaccinators are responding. What

willow

Tue, Jun 20 2006, 11:09 am

I should add/clarify that when I talk to friends and such about vaccinationsbI have found that the vaccinators get really angry when they hear I am even considering another viewpoint. They do not talk logic they just talk with a lot of emotion and heat against the idea.While those that do not vaccinate are much quieter and have been a pleasure to talk it out with. They do not even bash those that vaccinate they just calmly give me real information. ( this has been my experience).
I really am in the middle at this point about all this and would appreciate real information. Very Happy

Thank you.

sarahd

Wed, Jun 21 2006, 5:41 am

Here is a list of sites that can give you more information pro- and con-vaccinations: http://parentcenter.babycenter......html

And also something about vaccines and autism, very interesting: http://www.babycenter.com/refc.....:8374

chanab

Wed, Jun 21 2006, 5:03 pm

Quote:

The only thing I will agrue against is one sidedness.

I agree.IMHO, there are risks to both sides. After doing research you have to choose which risks you are more comfortable taking. I am also against uninformed decisions. Also sometimes different circumstances warrant different decisions. For ex a child who is more allergic. Or you could give some and not others. Or give on a delayed schedule.

loveNlearn

Sun, Apr 18 2010, 10:04 am

Carrot, I'd love to hear about what you read. Nothing of substance has been said thus far with regard to any vaccines. Specific information with sources would be lovely Smile

Anyone else with an educated opinion, please share your knowledge. TIA...

micki

Mon, Apr 19 2010, 10:17 am

I pick and choose.
I only vaccinate if its been on the market 10 + years.
I don't do varicella, and they just found out the rorovirus one was infected or something. so even tho my son got rotavirus, I am glad I didn't give it to him.

sequoia

Sun, May 16 2010, 3:12 am

Better hygiene and other conditions help to eliminate diseases.

But diseases cannot be eliminated without vaccines.

Hygiene alone won't do the trick.

If it were not for the smallpox vaccine, there would still be smallpox.

Smallpox was entirely eradicated from this planet partially because of the vaccine.

Do non-vaxers feel bad about that? Would they like smallpox to return?

If everybody vaccinated then other diseases could be eliminated as well.

Would that be a bad thing?

alpidarkomama

Sun, May 16 2010, 8:57 am

[quote="Secbeb"]

amother wrote:

I guess this is an area where I feel that I don't really have to "respect" the other position, because this is a health issue. I am not arguing opinions in the way that you prefer apples whereas I prefer oranges and my way is better than yours. I really believe that mothers who decide not to vaccinate their children put these children as well as little children who have not received the entire series of vaccinations in danger.

And therein lies the problem...

WriterMom

Sun, May 16 2010, 9:30 am

sequoia wrote:

Do non-vaxers feel bad about that? Would they like smallpox to return?

If everybody vaccinated then other diseases could be eliminated as well.

A) Nope. Also, this sort of attempt to shame me doesn't make me too likely to consider the issue the way good-faith questions might.

B) Not necessarily true. Most polio cases in existence today, for instance, are the result of vaccines.

More generally, there is no serious research about either the benefits or risks of vaccines. A lot of this is for good reason; it's not possible to do a double-blind valid study for these outcomes, for very valid ethical concerns.

rydys

Sun, Jan 01 2012, 8:03 am

That looks like an interesting study. 8000 kids is a large group. Do you know where I can find the study itself? All the links are to summaries--I'd like to see the results themselves. Also, I was unable to find the results of the survey on vaccinated children. There are lots of graphs and things about the numbers of unvaccinated kids in this study, but only one small list comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated. Aside from that, I cannot find any information on the numbers of vaccinated kids with these disorders. Simply looking at the rate of these issues in unvaccinated kids does not help me.

Marion

Sun, Jan 01 2012, 8:25 am

So here's my shtick:

The dead/live virus themselves don't scare me. The "non-medicinal" ingredients (chemicals used in the vaccine) is what scares me. So my kids get the MMR (NOT the MMRV as is currently standard here). To date I've done almost all the vaccines as recommended, but I'm rethinking the HepB, at least at 2 hours old. The Varicella (chicken pox) we will re-examine if the kids hit bar mitzvah without contracting it (complications and potential side effects change at puberty). And I DON'T like when they get 2 or 3 shots (so 7 or 8 vaccines) in one day, so I do spread them out.