the importance of vaccines!

amother

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 6:05 am

This is such an interesting thread to me, especially since I was just discussing this issue with my friend and I would love to hear what the ladies here think about this:
Her baby is around 14 months old and she just stopped breast feeding. She has suspected before that he is allergic to dif things but now she is sure and she took him to a 'natural' DR who told her that he is basically allergic to almost everything (at least for now) and he told her that vaccinating is really really bad for this baby and affects him really badly and he was really happy that she hasnt been giving him all the vaccines that are usually given in Israel in the first year.
She is really torn now between the fear of diseases that he could have because of not having been vaccinted and between now bad it could be for him to be vaccinated at all.
What would you think ?
I gotta say I dont have enough info about this to have a clear informed opinion but I very much do understand why she doesn't want to give him anything ...

lilacdreams

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 6:56 am

for such a difficult case I suggest she makes an appt with Dr Liora Uriel who is a regular MD doctor who works on maccabi in Beitar or privatly in Jerusalem. She is also a huge baki on vaccinations and gives lectures on what is in each one, and when is better to wait, delay or not to give atall. I like her because she is level headed and because she is an expert MD and natural/homeopathist complimetary doctor. Call maccabi and ask how to get hold of her in the clinic in Beitar - I know the best way is thru her secretary and to leave a message and be patient.

EvenI

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 12:15 pm

For those who want a clearer picture of the anti-vax arguments, this is an interesting link: http://www.healthychild.com/va.....tons/ It's a case made by an MD against vaccinations. It's very thoughtful and well articulated. It isn't a proof of anything, but it seems to be the thought process of a conscience driven doctor trying to do the best by patients.

EmesOrNT

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 12:28 pm

Inspired wrote:

The stated reason for children to get the chicken pox vaccine is so parents can miss less workdays. that was definitely on the CDC website.

I'm all for my kids not being home sick from school. If theres no reason for them to be sick, why should they suffer?

Did you ask your kids if they want to have the mumps or chicken pox? It's their bodies.

My sister in law selectively vaccinates, and I spoke to my 17 yr old niece. She says as soon as she's 18 she's going to get herself as many boosters as she can. She disagrees with her parents, and she feels it was unfair to put her in a situation like this without taking her into consideration.

jelly belly

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 12:39 pm

EvenI wrote:

That article is almost 30 years old. In the world of medicine, it is from the stone age. I would love to see something more current.

lilacdreams

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 12:44 pm

emesornt wrote:

Inspired wrote:

The stated reason for children to get the chicken pox vaccine is so parents can miss less workdays. that was definitely on the CDC website.

lol! my teens say exactly the same thing that its unfair to put them in their situation and as soon as they are 18 they are going to get an Iphone, a laptop, MP4s, etc etc etc. Its a good argument! And her parents did take her into consideration!!
Anyway besides that 18 is a good age to get a lot of boosters because if she plans on getting married soon after 18 the vaxes will mostly still work, whereas if she had had them at around 8 yrs old they would be wearing off by now and would have left her exposed to all sorts of illnesses that she may have wanted immunization against just as she was entering a pregnancy.
As for the chicken pox vax who said they wont suffer anyway? 1. They may still get it 2. Since the varicella vax came out there has been an increase children getting shingles, which up until about 10 years ago was unheard of in children. My daughter got shingles, and I can tell you she was in agony for weeks until it cleared up, whereas chicken pox is nearly always over within a week or 10 days and has little complications. The shingles just kept going and going causing her more complications after that that brought us to the hospital for furthur care.
Emes have you decided that vaxes are all safe with no comps and 100% imunity?

EvenI

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 12:51 pm

Marion wrote:

So here's my shtick:

The dead/live virus themselves don't scare me. The "non-medicinal" ingredients (chemicals used in the vaccine) is what scares me. So my kids get the MMR (NOT the MMRV as is currently standard here). To date I've done almost all the vaccines as recommended, but I'm rethinking the HepB, at least at 2 hours old. The Varicella (chicken pox) we will re-examine if the kids hit bar mitzvah without contracting it (complications and potential side effects change at puberty). And I DON'T like when they get 2 or 3 shots (so 7 or 8 vaccines) in one day, so I do spread them out.

How do you actually get the MMR instead of the MMRV? Do you ask for it at Tipat Chalav? I can't imagine them giving anything but the standard vaccines.

EvenI

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 1:05 pm

jelly belly wrote:

EvenI wrote:

That article is almost 30 years old. In the world of medicine, it is from the stone age. I would love to see something more current.

True, but the arguments still stand.

EmesOrNT

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 1:08 pm

EvenI wrote:

jelly belly wrote:

EvenI wrote:

That article is almost 30 years old. In the world of medicine, it is from the stone age. I would love to see something more current.

True, but the arguments still stand.

Yes, and the world is flat. science evolves. Get with the program, or get out.

EvenI

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 1:15 pm

emesornt wrote:

EvenI wrote:

jelly belly wrote:

EvenI wrote:

That article is almost 30 years old. In the world of medicine, it is from the stone age. I would love to see something more current.

True, but the arguments still stand.

Yes, and the world is flat. science evolves. Get with the program, or get out.

I guess I really should get out of here if that's the type of reaction I get.

Is this how you talk to people in real life?

NaturalMom

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 1:19 pm

emesornt wrote:

EvenI wrote:

jelly belly wrote:

EvenI wrote:

That article is almost 30 years old. In the world of medicine, it is from the stone age. I would love to see something more current.

True, but the arguments still stand.

Yes, and the world is flat. science evolves. Get with the program, or get out.

LOL, I thought you were "out?"

No study is ever going to be done on this issue, because it would be unethical. It would need to be a randomized, double blind study. So they would take 10 thousand kids and pretend to vaccinate them all. Half would receive the actual vaccines, while the other half would receive vials of water. They'd follow those kids for 25 years and make a report. It will never happen, because it is considered unethical to NOT vaccinate children without letting them know that they are not vaccinated.

Any study that merely studies those that are unvaccinated just won't cut it. We are a self selecting group. Mostly white, mostly upper middle class, mostly well educated. So our kids tend to be healthier? Could just be that we are raising them in an overall healthier manner because we have the means and the education to do so. Look at the Amish. No autism, no asthma, no ADHD. It could be a result of no vaccines, but it could also be the no TV, lots of fresh air, lots of exercise, no junk food, all organic food, type of life.

EvenI

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 1:22 pm

emesornt wrote:

EvenI wrote:

jelly belly wrote:

EvenI wrote:

That article is almost 30 years old. In the world of medicine, it is from the stone age. I would love to see something more current.

True, but the arguments still stand.

Yes, and the world is flat. science evolves. Get with the program, or get out.

Has the concern reflected in the 30 yr old article been addressed adequately n the last 30 yrs so that we can rest assured that today's recommendations and practices are free of any suspicion of the dangers and potential dangers discussed therein?

Raisin

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 1:31 pm

I do vaccinate my kids but I do not give the chickenpox vaccine. it is not offered routinely where I live and I would have to pay privately, but I did think about it and this is why I would not do it. (for future children, bh all my kids had light doses of chicken pox)

In the summer we had some girls staying with us. They wanted to go to stay with a family in another city. The kids in this family had chicken pox, so I told the girls. 2 of them had had chicken pox, one had been vaccinated. She called her dr who said she should not expose herself to this family since either the vaccine wears off and/or is not 100% anyway. (I can't remember which)

Also, a woman who has had chicken pox passes on her immunity to her babies. A woman who has been vaccinated does not.

EvenI

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 1:36 pm

NaturalMom wrote:

emesornt wrote:

EvenI wrote:

jelly belly wrote:

EvenI wrote:

That article is almost 30 years old. In the world of medicine, it is from the stone age. I would love to see something more current.

True, but the arguments still stand.

Yes, and the world is flat. science evolves. Get with the program, or get out.

Actually, there are plans to do that in Israel on the chareidim, after churning out a bit more anti-chareidi propaganda via the media to eliminate the ethical concerns.

EvenI

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 1:40 pm

Raisin wrote:

Really? How does she pass on the immunity to her babies? Through the pregnancy? Through breastmilk? Do you mean to say that no kids whose mother had chickenpox is at risk of getting chickenpox? That sounds very nice but I find that hard to believe.

jelly belly

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 1:42 pm

EvenI wrote:

jelly belly wrote:

EvenI wrote:

That article is almost 30 years old. In the world of medicine, it is from the stone age. I would love to see something more current.

True, but the arguments still stand.

Not all. Vaccines today are not the same vaccines they were giving 30+ yrs ago. No sarcasm intended- I really WOULD love to hear a more current perspective.

NaturalMom

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 3:29 pm

EvenI wrote:

NaturalMom wrote:

emesornt wrote:

EvenI wrote:

jelly belly wrote:

EvenI wrote:

That article is almost 30 years old. In the world of medicine, it is from the stone age. I would love to see something more current.

True, but the arguments still stand.

Yes, and the world is flat. science evolves. Get with the program, or get out.

Actually, there are plans to do that in Israel on the chareidim, after churning out a bit more anti-chareidi propaganda via the media to eliminate the ethical concerns.

NaturalMom

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 3:30 pm

EvenI wrote:

Raisin wrote:

I believe the immunity is passed on during pregnancy and can be prolonged during breastfeeding. But yes, it does wear off after a year or so.

BinahYeteirah

Sun, Jan 08 2012, 3:52 pm

EvenI wrote:

Raisin wrote:

Yes, it happens through the pregnancy as the mother passes IgG immunoglobulins through the placenta. This immunity is passive, which means that after a number of weeks or months, the immunity is gone and the baby does not have the ability to produce antibodies on its own. It does protect the baby against chicken pox, however, for those first weeks or months. This happened with one of my kids. My older kids came down with chicken pox within hours of my son's birth, but he never contracted it due to his strong passive immunity despite frequent contact with his infected older siblings. I don't know if vaccinated mothers give their babies passive immunity or not. Obviously, if immunity due to vaccination has waned over time, which is a known issue with the Varicella vaccine, a mother cannot give her baby passive immunity to something to which she is not immune herself.