Divorcing a woman that cheated

supermom

Wed, Sep 06 2006, 11:38 am

Thanks guys. Now for another question.

If a woman sleeps with a married man (the woman is not married could be single-divorced-widowed) he gets a divorce after and she marries him what is the marriage. Are they married or not?

Last edited by supermom on Thu, Sep 07 2006, 1:37 am; edited 1 time in total

yoyosma

Wed, Sep 06 2006, 11:40 am

So during a pogrom, when CH'V women were raped, they were allowed back to their husbands?
As far as I know, the Kohanim had to divorce their wives, is this true?

shalhevet

Wed, Sep 06 2006, 11:49 am

A man is (theoretically, according to Torah law) allowed more than one wife. If she wasn't married at the time there is no problem (halachically, of course rabbinically it's assur).

I heard that a Kohen's wife who such a thing happened to, ch"v, should go to a rav before saying anything to her husband.

yoyosma

Wed, Sep 06 2006, 11:59 am

See, practically, this always bothered me.
A woman has just undergone the severe mental and physical trauma of a rape. Now she is told she cant be with her husband. Its just mind boggling.

yedidya's mom

Thu, Sep 07 2006, 3:45 am

my husband is a kohen. these halachos are much stricter w. kohanim.
a kohen's wife who is raped cannot remain married to her husband. also a kohen may not be "machzir grushaso" (remarry the wife he divorced) which is usually considered a mitzvah.
hopefully none of these things will ever apply to me or anyone else I know so I try not to think abt it...

Flowerchild

Thu, Sep 07 2006, 6:12 am

it seems cruel to me, a woman is raped she is going through hell and now oh sorry but you gotta leave your husband as well. gee now thats great. its just so cruel its like she is a shmatta

JRKmommy

Thu, Sep 07 2006, 9:26 am

I did a little Google search, and came up with the following interesting item: http://www.jewishamerica.com/j.....s.cfm (scroll down to Women's rights/wrongs")

I also found a bit on the Avodah mailing list under the heading "Torah and Morality".

From that little bit of research, the consensus seems to be that a wife in that situation should ask a shaila to a knowledgeable and sensitive rav first. The way in which she discloses the incident, the reaction of the husband, the existance of witnesses (highly unlikely) and other factors all have a bearing, and it seems as though the rabbis would go out of their way (within halacha) to ensure that a divorce was NOT required. Apparently, this would not preclude disclosure by the woman to a rape crisis centre, etc. since that wouldn't be considered evidence in the halachic sense.

Motek

Thu, Sep 07 2006, 11:15 am

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

it seems cruel to me, a woman is raped she is going through hell and now oh sorry but you gotta leave your husband as well. gee now thats great. its just so cruel its like she is a shmatta

And her husband? Pretty awful for him, don't you think ...

Though I learned that the proper way of approaching things like this is to say, "I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT". "It seems cruel to me" is one thing. Saying "it's just so cruel" is something else! It's G-d's Torah, remember?

shalhevet

Thu, Sep 07 2006, 11:22 am

There are 'natural' laws in nature and their are 'laws of nature' in halacha I.e. actions have consequences even though they are not always "fair" in the way we perceive them.
Eg if someone ch"v puts their hand into a fire they get burned, whether or not it was their fault.

Also Hashem made laws: eg a child born of some forbidden relationships is a mamzer, with all the restrictions that entails, even though it obviously isn't his fault.

We have to understand that the same G-d who wrote the Torah also runs the world and knows exactly what He is doing when He makes/lets something happen. That is also part of His plan, even if we don't understand the reason.

Mitzvahmom

Thu, Sep 07 2006, 11:38 am

I really do not like the law, but it's life...

Upon requesting a GET from my ex, he accused me of having an affair.

Of course at the time he was being hit with child support, so he wanted to fight it.

I went to civil court, and swore before the judge that he was the only man I had ever been with (the TRUTH!! and still is). He stood and said, that Hashem would smite me down for lying.. We submitted to blood tests, and he was OF COURSE proved wrong.

It's a really HORRIBLE experience honestly, not something one should push someone into lightly

JRKmommy

Thu, Sep 07 2006, 1:23 pm

And of course, once again, a shaila would be in order. We can't just assume, "this is what would happen, too bad."

A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. There are ways, within halacha, that this particular outcome (divorce) can be avoided, and other requirements in halacha (eg. the requirement to show kindness) would mandate that a rav do the utmost to resolve it.

As well, the entire question only applies where the husband is a Cohen. Otherwise, in a case of rape, there is no willful adultery and therefore no cause for divorce.

Reminds me of Naomi Ragen's "The Sacrifice of Tamar", which is the story of a young wife who is raped and doesn't disclosure the fact out of fear of divorce and disgrace. The ultimate conclusion is that she should have asked the question, and she would have been held blameless, instead of having the burden of the secret cause so much suffering. [Hmmm...maybe Ragen isn't so anti-Charedi after all...It's a great book, by the way.]

Flowerchild

Thu, Sep 07 2006, 1:40 pm

Quote:

Motek
And her husband? Pretty awful for him, don't you think ...

Though I learned that the proper way of approaching things like this is to say, "I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT". "It seems cruel to me" is one thing. Saying "it's just so cruel" is something else! It's G-d's Torah, remember?

yes it is bad for her husband as well, its bad for them both, but when your raped and you feel lost and a part of you is robbed, hearing that you have to leave the man you trully love(hopefully) your husband is even more painful and in this instance I think that for a woman it is more painful. so yes it is cruel and yes motek I remember that it is G-ds torah, I dont need you to remind me, and I still feel that it is cruel, yet I do accept it because that is the law, but I am allowed to feel and think that it is cruel

chen

Fri, Sep 08 2006, 8:57 am

JRKmommy wrote:

As well, the entire question only applies where the husband is a Cohen. Otherwise... there is no willful adultery and therefore no cause for divorce.

you want to rephrase that, maybe? as stated, you are implying that if the victim is the wife of a kohen, it is willful adultery, which is not the case. divorce is not mandated because it was willful! We don't know why the poor woman must be divorced, other than that kohanim are held to a purer standard than the rest of the population.

Add this to my list of questions that I am taking with me to Olom Habbo, if I can get anyone to talk to me. (I imagine there will be a huge long line of people, each with a list as long as a roll of ticker tape.)

JRKmommy

Fri, Sep 08 2006, 9:05 am

Chen - ok, maybe it was bad grammar on my part. I'll rephrase:

The issue of mandatory divorce in the case of rape (ie. opposite of willful adultery) applies only to kohanim.

A Jewish man who is not a kohen is only required to divorce his wife if she voluntarily committed adultery and was therefore immoral. Being raped is not voluntary, there is no sin and no immoral behavior on the wife's part, and therefore no requirement to divorce.

Same caveat as before - ask a shaila if c"v in this situation, because a knowledgeable rav should know halachic ways to avoid this.