Please help me, I'm so confused!

Sanguine

Fri, Apr 25 2014, 3:56 am

chanchy123 wrote:

Check out Bat Ayin, it's a chareidi/BT/not anywhere near the box - type of place. In Gush Ezion. It's about as country as country can be, and there is a very good school in the area your DD may get into if she's eligable for special needs. It's one of the best special ed/mainstream schools in the country. Not chareidi, though, but people are VERY happy with it and move from all over the country to go. There are very few openings for mainstream children, but you might get lucky, and if your DD is indeed SN, that's probably one of the best places to try (Check out Reshit ראשיתp0

I also thought Bat Ayin sounds like a good fit and schooling in the Gush can offer a lot. FF, if you're not set on Tsfat anymore, why are you so set on the North?

FranticFrummie

Fri, Apr 25 2014, 7:56 am

Thanks for all the reality checks! We now have arrangements for both meals with Chabad people, so you know DH and I will be picking their brains.

Yes, the lovely place by the beach is a rental. We are in no position to buy right now, and we won't even think about it until we are 100% sure. That goes for DD being 100% sure, too.

We're going to meet with our NbN coordinator and pick her brains, too. Still waiting for an email back from the school, and we'll call them on Sunday if I don't hear from them. The school is not far from the apartment.

DH doesn't need much in the way of "community", he just needs a place to daven. I don't really go out much, most of my friends "live online", and I'm a notorious introvert. I'm happiest when I'm in a place that's quiet and serene.

Have a wonderful Shabbos everyone, I'll check back soon!

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Apr 25 2014, 8:06 am

DrMom wrote:

THIS!!! You're looking for a home, not a vacation rental. Remember that summers here are HOT! You don't want to schlepp miles to and from shul on Shabbat. And where is the school? DD may want to be near friends.

Agree in full. Community is SOOOOO much more important than an apartment, not that that is not important at all, but community is much more important. We moved from the yishuv we live on for a year to a city closer to my husband's job so his commute would be even less than half the time. The city was nice, the apartment was lovely. The community was hellish. We left after a year. Community is so important. I am also am introvery FF, but I still need a community as does your daughter and even your husband, even if he is not there all of the time. My husband "uses" our community on shabbat, thats it. He comes home late from work and only goes to shul during shabbat and goes to a shiur on shabbat. Community is of utmost importance, really. Dont pick a location because of an apartment or because of the beach. That will not be a community. Best of luck to you guys.

chanchy123

Fri, Apr 25 2014, 8:08 am

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Hardly in the dessert, Bay Ayin is part of the Judean Hills, very green year-round, usually gets some snow in the winter, there are natural and man made springs and pools in the area that people hike out to and use as a mikvah (men) many BTs many English speakers and olim from various countries, people have a chassidic/artsy/holistic orientation, on the line between Chareidi and Chardal, excellent schools in the area. I know Nahariya feels good to you now, and maybe it really is the right place for you. But I think you should listen to what everyone is saying here, and at least check this place out.

Dolly Welsh

Fri, Apr 25 2014, 4:18 pm

There is more than one opinion here about places. For instance, Betar. One says it's one thing, and another says the exact opposite. They are both right. There is no one true description; it depends on the person and the day what is experienced. You bring it with you.

You yourself describe a quiet-loving friend who is happy in a place you find it strange she should be happy. She has brought it with her. The noise there is the exact right kind for her to not be bothered by.

So, it's your lungs versus your daughter. Go for the daughter. That is where your exposure to pain is the greatest. There are meds for lungs but not for daughters.

You know you are going to have to dance with the music. It's somewhere else. You are going to change. I mean, that's why you're going, so don't fight it.

You will fidget for a while then you will be one of them. It will happen. You WILL acculturate. Just don't fight it. A new you is on its way. That's exciting!

You can't go twelve thousand miles and be amazed things are different. Of course they are different. Very different. It's the other side of the world

You sound as if you have at least one foot already on the ground there. Your adjustment will be smooth. It sounds as if you will be very happy.

wispalover

Sat, Apr 26 2014, 3:27 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

So, it's your lungs versus your daughter. Go for the daughter. That is where your exposure to pain is the greatest. There are meds for lungs but not for daughters.

You know you are going to have to dance with the music.

Not to make a big deal about this, but actually asbestos could easily affect her DD too. Last time I checked, there was no cure or meds for mesothelioma either...

FF: if you really want a beach, why not check out other beachside communities too? For example, here where I live (pm me) there are plenty of Anglos probably around your age/ DH's age and there are several schools with experience in Olim here.

Also, IIRC, doesn't your daughter have special needs? Have you looked into the ability/ease of getting services straight away- and in English at first- for her? Have you considered what you will do if she doesn't pick up Hebrew immediately?
I am not trying to be a negative nancy, but these are things I wish I had known before I moved. I have a child with exceptionally severe language issues (I realise we may not be dealing with similar issues, but giving an example here) and we are dealing with a HUGE amount of problems because he simply cannot grasp the language.

shabbatiscoming

Sat, Apr 26 2014, 4:21 pm

wispalover wrote:

FF, first of all, I second what wispalover says about a beach community. Where she lives is a lovely beach community Smile

Second, I also wanted to comment on what dolly wrote. "So, it's your lungs versus your daughter. Go for the daughter. That is where your exposure to pain is the greatest. There are meds for lungs but not for daughters. " Dolly, do you not think that if there are haelth issues in a certain town, a child could get them as well? And if a parent gets sick, then what?
Yes, a child's spiritual health is important, but why pick some place to live if you know that there will be health risks there, even before you get there?

Liba

Sat, Apr 26 2014, 4:48 pm

chani8 wrote:

Excuse me, I have lived in Betar. It is not the right place for FF. Dogs are not acceptable in any closed charedi community, and might even scare people.

I agree.

Even though they are tolerated here I don't think they would have much of a community. Children are not likely to come over to play in a house with dogs, they won't want to and their parents won't allow it. Walking the dog on public streets won't be a good option and landlords aren't going to be enthusiastic about renting to them either.

Yes, there are dogs here, but it isn't normative and it isn't a great fit for the community.

Will people comment or cause a ruckus over it? No. Will they let their kids go to your house and play with your dog or even come play with your daughter if the dog is outside and they won't come in contact with it? Not likely either.

amother

Sun, Apr 27 2014, 1:52 am

I'm an introvert too, but OMG there's going to be a point, sooner or later, where you freak out over the tumultous changes aliyah brings. And then you're going to NEED people. Kind people who speak your language and understand your thinking. Me, I was stuck in bed for almost a year with culture shock. Severe depression. I never ever expected that, and it was horrible.

Right now, living in America in your comfort zone, you might not need a lot of interaction with people, but you ARE going to need a listening ear when you're in a new country with a new language and lots of new challenges. Literally EVERYTHING will be an exhausting challenge. Buying groceries. Paying your bills. Writing a note to the teacher explaining your daughter was sick. Literally every single thing you do without thinking now, is going to take a lot of effort and planning and hard work as an olah chadashah.

Please, I'm begging you, find a community that has kind, growth-oriented people, some of whom speak English. I think Tzfat is a good place to start; a soft landing. You can live there for a year and then reevaluate, after you've had the chance to visit other places in a less rushed way than what you're having to do now. Tzfat has a good English library, which if you're a bookish introvert on a budget, will become important. And lots of artsy idealistic BTs there. I know people there and have never heard of problems with black mold; is it possible the problem isn't as widespread as you think?

I was at Bat Ayin a few times visiting friends. I'm a former hippie BT, so you would think I would love it, but nope. There were lots of nice people there, friendly people, but I felt like it was too BT. Like there wasn't a good mix of people there. You know how when a lot of people first become frum, they go waaaay to the extreme, aka the flaming BT? So there were a ton of flaming BTs there. And I felt like I wanted to be in a more stable place, with people who had grown up frum and could give good perspectives that would help me understand how to raise my kids, because I don't know what it's like to grow up frum, and I really need help understanding what to push my kids on and what to relax about. I think a mix of people is so important. The no-fence thing also made me uncomfortable. Although I respect their reasons, I still am more of a hishtadlus kind of person.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Apr 27 2014, 5:03 am

This Shabbos was wonderful. We met several English speaking Chabad families, one of which just made Aliyah last year. They were able to give us a lot of the pros and cons of pretty much everything we asked. Everyone was solid, and had no illusions about the reality of life. We davened with a Temani kehillah in the evening, and they welcomed us like long lost relatives. Most of them spoke fairly good English, too!

I did some quick research on the asbestos problem, and found this "the prevalence of the disease in the Acre District, which includes Nahariya, reached 5.72 per 100,000 residents between 2002 and 2008. The overall total number of patients for the period was 19."

Of course we must guard our health, but it seems that the majority of the victims were workers in the asbestos plant, and in two cases, their wives who handled their husband's work clothes. In any case, we may not even stay here after our first year, and might move to Tzfat eventually anyway.

We're going to visit schools tomorrow, so that will be the deciding factor. Even so, DD will be held back the first year, and will focus on learning the language and figuring out how to navigate the social system. I'm not worried about academics at all. She picks up languages amazingly fast, it's her strongest skill. I'm pretty good at picking up language, too. Learning to read Hebrew is a different issue for me, but I don't think it's impossible, I just need to be patient with myself.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Apr 28 2014, 9:24 am

We just got back from the school. DD loves it! The uniform is relaxed, with a t-shirt with 3/4 or long sleeves in a variety of fun colors, and a dark skirt. Tights are not required, and leggings underneath are fine. DD HATES tights and socks, her feet are very sensistive/sensory. She'd go barefoot everywhere if she could, even in the snow.

They have 3 teachers who speak very good English, and the rest of the staff has passable English to get by. We didn't have any trouble communicating our needs and concerns, and they were very open and accepting of us. Not nearly as nerve wracking as I expected, it was totally easy. They are fine with her repeating 5th grade and just focusing on language skills. They don't care at all about her math skills while she's learning Ivrit. Plenty of time to catch up on that later, and we can always get her a tutor if we want.

DH is dead set against living in a moshav. He loves Nahariya, and has already found Yiddish speakers from Chabad that he clicks with. I've found several American olim around my age that are extremely friendly and willing to help with anything I need. I have several friend from Seattle who live in various parts of Israel now, and they are all only a phone call, email, or train ride away. I actually have more close friends here than I do in the US now! I swear, last year half of Seattle made Aliyah. It's been lonely for me in Seattle, with all of them gone.

I will be depending on DH to help with bills and grocery shopping the first year, until I get the hang of things. We haven't had any trouble finding the highest hecksherim for meat and dairy, produce, etc. Shmitta year will be a challenge, but I'm sure we can get through it in one piece, we just have to be willing to learn and go with the flow.

I don't expect to have everything handed to me on a silver platter the day I step off the plane. I know it will be very hard work, and there will be lots of times that I will feel incredibly stupid. I have to be OK with that, and just deal with what comes.

I spoke to an older couple over Pesach, who said to me "We came here 50 years ago and drained the swamps so that YOU can live here!" Wow, talk about Jewish guilt. Wink

It really puts things in perspective. Paying the electric bill seems like small potatoes in comparison.

There's a company called AngloProtezia that will find the lowest rates for you and handle all of your bills, for an annual fee. I've talked to several people who have used them, and they all say that these people are worth their weight in gold, especially the first year. They navigate all of the paperwork for you, speak fluent English, and if you find a better rate, they pay you double back what you overpaid.

I've explained to DD that there will be lots of times where she will feel lonely because all the kids will be speaking Ivrit, and they may not have the time or patience to include her in their friendships. We've discussed this several times, and she insists that she will learn quickly, and that in the meantime she will be OK with it. We'll see when we actually get here if that is true, but at least right now she has a really good attitude about it. Right now she's watching Israeli children's programming on the hotel TV, because she wants to learn as fast as she can!

We're going to take a one year lease on the apartment, and then decide from there if we want to go anywhere else, or stay here. We're keeping options open for now.

Next step, a zillion pieces of paperwork! Banging head