Woman in America, Not allowed to drive.

Chayalle

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:40 pm

sourstix wrote:

they try very hard not to bring in modern stuff even if it does come in as is many advancements like washing machines and so forth they frown upon it bec of any influences. obviously wahsing machines isnt the best example.

Huh? Chassidim don't have washing machines? This I never heard. Sounds like the Amish.

deena19k

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:50 pm

amother wrote:

I have driven for over 20 years in NYC and all over the US. I am terrified to drive in israel. The drivers are crazy and I am afraid I will make a wrong turn and end up in an Arab village. If I make Aliyah I won't drive.

This makes me laugh because I'm the exact opposite. I drive all over israel but when I go back home to the us to visit, I'm nervous to drive on the highway. Lol

sourstix

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 2:10 pm

[quote="Chayalle"]Huh? Chassidim don't have washing machines? This I never heard. Sounds like the Amish.[/quote] oh right did you read my post? I used it as an example how chasidim try to hold off in any advancements. forget about washing machine. common I have a machine. for instance internet it was banned by chasidim totally. they will not allow it in. except for me. I guess. you could think however you want of me. get the gist? they do all kinds of gedarim that others dont. dont get into the problems it comes along with. I am sick of discussing it.

Chloe

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 2:57 pm

Kiryas Yoel does not allow women driving if she wants to send her kids to their school (They have no jurisdiction over families that live outside of the village and do not send to their schools). Old news. Tons of threads on this subject.

To those who are saying that they anyway wouldn't want to drive. That is NOT the point. The point is that these people are not given a CHOICE.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 3:04 pm

amother wrote:

Nah, you get used to it. I hve lived in Israel for 12 years. In the beginning I never thought I would drive here. Nervous or the whole idea.
But no 12 years later, I have driven for the last 10 years. And it just becomes second nature to me. I dont like driving in NJ (when I used to go back to visit family) as I was not used to that kind of driving anymore.

Its not as scary as you may think or as scary as it looks like. Trust me.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 4:23 pm

I'm from a satmar family and married into a different chassidus that doesn't either allow women to drive. I am learning how to drive. That doesn't mean I will have a car or drive every day. I want to have a license and be able to drive if need arises. My husband has a car and it happens very often when I need to go out that he stays home with the kids. Its more convenient to drive a car than to take public transportation or a car service.

I am not making any announcements that I am learning how to drive, but I won't keep it a secret either.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 4:56 pm

amother wrote:

Its great that you are taking control over your own life! I hope that you are proud of yourself.
Many times people say that the reason satmar women dont drive is because it's not tznius for them to drive. Do you feel like you are less tzniusdig for driving a car?

KollelWife3

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:13 pm

Chloe wrote:

If it's not something you want, you don't find it restrictive.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:26 pm

KollelWife3 wrote:

[/b]

If it's not something you want, you don't find it restrictive.

How do you know that it's not something they want? Maybe they do want it (or at least some of them want it) but are afraid because of the consequences. Which is sad because Judaism doesn't forbid women from driving cars so no one should be punished for doing something that doesn't even go against halacha. Forbidding women from driving actually takes away their free will which is against halacha. How ironic.

southernbubby

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 6:58 pm

Raisin wrote:

I agree driving and owning a car in NYC is a pain and its also bh very easy to manage without a car for most things. But I am so glad that my chassidus has no such restriction. The most tznius chabad women I know drive, and if they don't that is due to other factors. Like I know someone who had so many kids in close succession that she never had time for driving lessons.

Much of the Chabad lifestyle involves going to communities outside CH on shluchis. Shluchim who can't drive are at the mercy of asking others for rides to doctor visits, the mikveh, grocery shopping, etc. In fact, that is how I became frum. I drove my shlucha everywhere and told her to teach me everything while we were going places. I was 22 and married already and didn't know what hechsherim were valid or what type of clothes were tznius. After I moved to a different community, she got her license.

southernbubby

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 7:14 pm

amother wrote:

But to me, I see this the same way I see disagreement with the kollel system and the shidduch system. It is the concept of push coming to shove. Example: If my skirt still zips, I can continue to wear it, even if I am gaining weight. At some point, chas v'sholem, it won't zip anymore and I won't be able to push and shove myself into it. Then I will need a bigger one.
I see the same idea when it comes to any suggestion that the frum world replace old ideas with new ones. As long as the old ones still work for the majority, it won't change but if it is no longer working, then little by little more people will resort to change until it won't be such a big deal anymore. This was brought out in the discussion about Chassidim in college. It was rare, then a trickle, now a small stream, but it is no longer a shock to see college students with peyos and longeh reckelach.
If more women have a real need to drive, eventually it will become more accepted but at present, car ownership in either NY or EY (I have driven in EY but those mountain roads with no guardrails makes Boro Park driving look like kiddie cars), is more trouble than it is worth.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 7:31 pm

I don’t understand the point. I mean, you leave a community, you get to do things they don’t do in the community. This is big news? And FWIW, I don’t drive, my mother-in-law never drove and plenty of people I know don’t. If you want to drive, you don’t live in a community where you can’t. If you start driving, you don’t get a prize. You get a license.

I’m MO but I’m bored of these “I’m free of my former life so now I do this, can you cheer for me” articles and books and can’t wait for them to go out of style.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 7:40 pm

amother wrote:

You are MO which means that you have the choice and freedom to drive (and do other things like go to college, date etc) if you wish. So I wouldn't expect you to understand why it's difficult for someone who doesn't have these choices to have to leave their community (and all their family and friends) and start their lives over somewhere else where they have the freedom to finally do what they want. It's actually a big deal and many people are inspired by their bravery and courage to start over as an adult despite the hardships involved. That's why these books are popular.

southernbubby

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 7:46 pm

amother wrote:

I have tried to convince Maya to write one. I think she has the potential to be a good writer. I guess, however, that however hard it is to leave a community that was once hearth and home, it is even harder to betray it in the press. A person can leave angrily or regretfully. Leaving the only life one knew, however, is something that every BT, such as myself, can relate to on one level but I went from a totally unrestricted lifestyle to a somewhat restricted one.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 7:49 pm

Sourstix, Internet is banned for men and women. Driving is only banned for women. Is it less tznius to go all over with Spanish and Russian Drivers?? All Rebitzins are constantly being driven everywhere by the lowest of the low class drivers.
I know we have to stick to the rules, and I have no problem conforming. However, I don't think anybody would go OTD if they would be allowed to drive. Halevai, some Rabbonim would take the gall to reconsider.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 8:12 pm

amother wrote:

I have many friends who are ex-Hasids and they agree with me. Some people want applause for everything they do when they leave. In my parents and grandparents day plenty of people weren’t as frum as their family or community, and they moved away and made new lives. My parents did. But these days everyone things everything they do needs to get cheers. You’re so brave! You’re so amazing!

I’m sorry, but I don’t get it. My best friend is an ex-Hasid and agrees.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 8:22 pm

amother wrote:

Ex-Hasidic doesn't mean ex-satmar, it could be ex-chabad which is extremely lenient compared to satmar. The two communities are not comparable.

And you really can't compare someone who grew up secular and choice to become frum as an adult. You became frum after you received your education vs a satmar person leaves the community without an education to begin with and really has to start their lives over from scratch.

southernbubby

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 8:26 pm

amother wrote:

But in groups where driving is allowed by both genders plenty of people go OTD so why do you feel that driving would save the souls of Chassidishe women? Are the women really so eager to do something that is so stressful? NY is such a great place to walk.

sourstix

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 8:33 pm

[quote="amother"]Sourstix, Internet is banned for men and women. Driving is only banned for women. Is it less tznius to go all over with Spanish and Russian Drivers?? All Rebitzins are constantly being driven everywhere by the lowest of the low class drivers.
I know we have to stick to the rules, and I have no problem conforming. However, I don't think anybody would go OTD if they would be allowed to drive. Halevai, some Rabbonim would take the gall to reconsider.[/quote]ou

its amusing what your writing here, I am actually smiling, cause I started a thread not long ago about this and I wrote every word you did, oh I was angry and trust me I am not happy, but I am going to drive despite what rabbonim are saying cause they arent backing it with anything. if it was a geder then they need to reconsider it. because yiddishkeit isnt about women driving. please I dont want to go down there. I refuse to be upset about it. I will not be anouncing that I am driving and just do what I need to do. and no I am not exchasidish, nor intend to be one. I think that if you want to drive cause you want freedom to decide what you want to do, thats diff if its cause its a necessity. from where I come and live driving isnt needed. its oot and suburbs that do. I really dont have to.

Chloe

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 8:33 pm

I agree with Southern Bubby. No driving = OTD is pretty far fetched.
I grew up in a community where women don't drive and I drive. I just needed to go get a permit, practice driving and take the road test. No need to go OTD for that Wink

I'm anytime as spiritual now, as I was before starting to drive.