Woman in America, Not allowed to drive.

sourstix

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 8:48 pm

[quote="Chloe"]Also, the reason for the driving ban is NOT TZNIUS. The reason is CONTROL.[/quote]si

are you chasidish? I am. it isnt about control as I said before, chasidim try to hold back from influences much more so then others. did you hear the expression fun der heim? we want to emulate our grandparents, we try to stick protect our children and ourselves from outside influences, obviously times have changed and their are diff circumstances and thats my question why arent rabonim realizing that. driving is a tool just like any other tool. theres more to it go to the old threads about it. theres some clarity. look I think times have changed what was important then isnt today so rabonim should change it I dont know why they hold on so tight on things that dont matter.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 8:49 pm

amother wrote:

Ex-Hasidic doesn't mean ex-satmar, it could be ex-chabad which is extremely lenient compared to satmar. The two communities are not comparable.

And you really can't compare someone who grew up secular and choice to become frum as an adult. You became frum after you received your education vs a satmar person leaves the community without an education to begin with and really has to start their lives over from scratch.

Sorry I didn’t clarify. My best friend is ex-Satmar.

I didn’t understand the distinction you made. I was talking about people who grew up Satmar and left.

Chloe

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 8:52 pm

sourstix wrote:

si

are you chasidish? I am. it isnt about control as I said before, chasidim try to hold back from influences much more so then others. did you hear the expression fun der heim? we want to emulate our grandparents, we try to stick protect our children and ourselves from outside influences, obviously times have changed and their are diff circumstances and thats my question why arent rabonim realizing that. driving is a tool just like any other tool. theres more to it go to the old threads about it. theres some clarity. look I think times have changed what was important then isnt today so rabonim should change it I dont know why they hold on so tight on things that dont matter.

Yes, I'm Chassidish. And yes it is about control.
There were no cars in der alter heim so this is a fairly new ban.

pause

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 8:53 pm

Chloe wrote:

Yes, I'm Chassidish. And yes it is about control.
There were no cars in der alter heim so this is a fairly new ban.

And - just to add to what you're saying - then men would also not be allowed to drive.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:09 pm

4everonadiet wrote:

I agree with sour stix, chassidim nowadays are about keeping everything as it was. Who is controlling what here?

My grandmother never wore seams, I did. My grandmother didn't shave her head, my head was shaved. I was allowed to wear t-shirts growing up, my nieces re only allowed to wear button down shirts these days. Oh, and my mother wore short skirts (above the knees) and went to the theater to watch movies but we aren't allowed to do so. All of us are satmar. How exactly are satmar chasidim keeping everything the way it was?

4everonadiet

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:09 pm

pause wrote:

Are you chassidish?

O boy, big time. No I'm not satmar and I do hate the no driving policy. I think it's outdated, unnecessary and degrading. I just don't get the control issue.

MagentaYenta

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:11 pm

sourstix wrote:

...it isnt about control as I said before, chasidim try to hold back from influences much more so then others. did you hear the expression fun der heim? we want to emulate our grandparents..

My grandparents lived above their horse and chickens, sheep and cows. They didn't have paper plates or two sinks, no less a car. They had wayfarers paying for food and sleeping on their floor.

This back to the society of my grandparents doesn't work for me. Maybe because I'm a first generation American who heard their stories. I remember when my grandmother was first told about Jewish women going off to special homes to recover from birth. She laughed.

We used to be the 'light unto the nations' .

pause

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:12 pm

4everonadiet wrote:

O boy, big time. No I'm not satmar and I do hate the no driving policy. I think it's outdated, unnecessary and degrading. I just don't get the control issue.

OK, I thought that if you're chassidish, I wouldn't need to explain the control issue...
Then again, if you're not chassidish, I wouldn't either see the need to explain it to an outsider.

4everonadiet

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:13 pm

amother wrote:

Was your mother a typical satmar woman??
Are your nieces living in the same community you and your mother did?? I do agree that we're getting more extreme as time goes by. But your example is extreme as well iykwim.

I'm only asking about the control.

pause

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:16 pm

4everonadiet wrote:

I am not Satmar, but I can provide more anecdotal evidence from relatives vis a vis movies and such.

4everonadiet

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:21 pm

pause wrote:

I am not Satmar, but I can provide more anecdotal evidence from relatives vis a vis movies and such.

I certainly believe you.

I'm always wondering what keeps us women back from just starting to drive, en masse.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:24 pm

4everonadiet wrote:

Yes, we are all from the same community except for my grandmother since she was from satu mar. My nieces go to the same school as I did. The reason it's a control issue is because they keep coming up with new rules and change everything to the extreme yet somehow they cannot change the rule of no driving? So it's ok to change some things but not others?

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:25 pm

sourstix wrote:

I THINK, FUNDERHEIM, MEN DIDN'T EITHER DRIVE CAR!!!!

sourstix

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:25 pm

[quote="4everonadiet"]Was your mother a typical satmar woman??
Are your nieces living in the same community you and your mother did?? I do agree that we're getting more extreme as time goes by. But your example is extreme as well iykwim.

I'm only asking about the control.[/quote]

so your grandmother was in that part that wasnt doing what they should not have according to rabonim in those days. I am sorry if it hurts, I really dont mean to I am just clarifying what meant to do like the alte heim. its something that chasidim try to hold on to. I cant mock their intentions though I dont understand it fully. but there is something to it. and then again if our grandmothers didnt cover their knees does that mean when we do whats right we are being extreme? pure halacha isnt extreme. the extras like seams on tights are extreme although the intentions behind it had a reason. obviously those problems arent around. we have different ones and that doesnt mean rabanim are controlling and it doesnt mean if we do what halacha tells us to do that we are extreme. look I might be rambling a little I am tired

Deep

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:32 pm

The "control" argument is full of holes. Any chassidista will readily acknowledge that contemporary chassidus places way more restrictions on the men. From underwear to eyeglasses, outings to education - women have a lot more leeway in every single aspect of life. I do not profess to be an expert on the evolution of contemporary chassidus. Nevertheless, I believe the no-driving ban for women and Rabbanim is a remnant of an era in which "es hot nisht gepast" for certain people to drive.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 9:41 pm

Deep wrote:

The men go to yeshiva/dorm and can sneak out of there to do whatever they want. The men go to shul and can be there for hours or rather sneaking off to do whatever they want. Oh and men drive so its easier for them to get away if they need to. I've heard plenty of stories about men sneaking off to do things so don't bother denying it. Women generally stay at home with their kids, don't go to shul, don't drive, and are generally more supervised than the men so no, they don't have more leeway when it comes to these things.