I can't take this anymore

Tablepoetry

Wed, May 13 2015, 7:17 am

I empathize. I think working f/t with five little kids is extremely difficult. Only in frum circles is this considered normative.
I also don't get the concept of working a f/t job just for tuition. Not that I'm a fan of homeschooling; I'd much sooner send to a good public school.
But I do think the school option needs to be rethought. Maybe move, to an area with cheaper schools?
OP's kids are little. She could leave the ones who are in school at school, if they are indeed thriving, and think of a solutuon for the other ones.

Barbara

Wed, May 13 2015, 7:34 am

sequoia wrote:

Yeah I think it's time to play poker. Odds are he won't divorce you or anything.

Yeah.

Doing something that your spouse is diametrically opposed to, without telling him in advance, without discussing it with him, without having a viable alternative to supporting the family, is a great way to build a strong and trusting relationship.

Imagine if a man did that. "My husband hates his job. He says it depresses him, and that he'd be much better staying at home, even though the job is interesting and very flexible. We discussed him quitting his job, but we just can't make ends meet without drastic changes if he does. Well, today he quit his job. He said that I was being unfair, and that his mental state is more important than the stability of our kids' education, or our financial stability. He said that if I want to keep our kids in school, its my problem to figure out how to do it, not his. He said something about the fact that he was willing to "play poker" with our marriage, because he figured I would never leave him anyway. What should I do?"

Barbara

Wed, May 13 2015, 7:36 am

sequoia wrote:

Many imamothers are homeschooling and no one tells them they are doing anything wrong. No one says "No, don't homeschool! You must send to yeshiva!"

Just because OP's husband is opposed to it doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

So he's supposed to go out and work long and hard hours, but apart from making money, he has no say in the education of the kids.

Sanguine

Wed, May 13 2015, 7:44 am

imaima wrote:

Don't take my words out of the context.

Now you got everyone confused with this divorced business. Turns out it's not as bad as it seems.
Have you considered cardinal changes like moving to a cheaper city/country?

Or sell your house and live in a cheap apartment. Not what you're used to and not DH's dream of a life out of poverty but if working full time really is harming you (and it is), something has to go. Live in a small apartment (own or rent, I don't know what is more financially sound) and give up the house. Then you can send your girls to Yeshiva and find a much lower level part time for you. Maybe in 5 or 10 years it will be the right time for you to work full time. Then you'll buy a house again.

In my personal opinion, I would never consider not sending my kids to a Dati school. I know homeschooling is a big thing these days and I can teach my kids the three R's and limudei Kodesh (till a certain age) but there is so much more to learn in school. So many special days and so much gained from learning from the teachers who are such personal examples to your girls. Lets them learn from people other than their parents. If the school has your Hashkafa you'll also learn from your girls.

If you're suitable to teach all your kids a full curriculum, You really should become a teacher. You'll work half a day (LK or English teacher), have vacation with your kids, have summers off, and get a cut in tuition. Your working will cover their tuition cause you'll get a break and you're working part time. Consider that option.

Last edited by Sanguine on Wed, May 13 2015, 7:46 am; edited 2 times in total

Raisin

Wed, May 13 2015, 7:44 am

I think working full time with 5 little kids is very very hard. And you don't say if you have any help in the house. If you have not experienced this, I think it is rude to be do dismissive of the OPs troubles.

Maybe you can discuss homeschooling for a year or two, and put them back into school after that. Life gets much much easier once your kids are older (in some ways) - the kids can help, they are not so needy physically, and you might find working less difficult then.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 13 2015, 7:53 am

Barbara wrote:

I'm not manipulative which is why I haven't quit my job long ago.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 13 2015, 7:58 am

Sanguine wrote:

We have a very low mortgage which is the equivalent to rent in a 2 bedroom apartment (including factoring in utilities). I worked a lot as a teenager, saved every dime and invested it. The investments did well enough that we bought a house with a large downpayment. Unfortunately, the market has since crashed and selling it would just pay the balance of the mortgage.

We don't live in a very expensive area and DH's salary would drastically drop if we moved elsewhere.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 13 2015, 8:00 am

Raisin wrote:

We don't have help. While my house isn't in top shape, it's not really the problem. We also don't have spare cash for cleaning help enough to make any sort of difference.

Barbara

Wed, May 13 2015, 8:12 am

Raisin wrote:

Of course its difficult. No one said it isn't.

Nor do I think that anyone is dismissive of OP's problems.

But she needs to confront these problems, and do so in a manner that does not dismiss her husband's opinions and concerns, and takes into account the fact that her children are happy and thriving in their current environment.

And I think that we all need to recall that the problems she cites are not the ordinary ones -- that she is overworked, or tired, or doesn't have enough help around the house. It's that working depresses her.

Therapy would help her figure out why that is, before she gives up a job that she tells us is interesting and flexible, only to find out that the stresses of homeschooling also depress her. It would also help her deal with the normal stresses of the modern world.

It's ridiculous to say that she should make unilateral decisions, and that her husband has no say. It's ridiculous to say she'll just divorce him, go live in her parents' basement, and let him worry about the money. It's ridiculous to say that the burden of supporting the family should fall on him alone. It doesn't help her to encourage her to live in a fantasy world. That's not supporting her. It's setting her up for disaster.

Barbara

Wed, May 13 2015, 8:16 am

amother wrote:

I'm not manipulative which is why I haven't quit my job long ago.

Duly noted. I was responding to Sequoia's suggestion.

But here's mine. Get your resume together. See what other jobs are out there. Maybe it really is the job that you have now, and something else would be better. It sounds like you've been there quite a while. Maybe you're just not seeing how this particular job affects you. And who knows. Maybe you'll find something with fewer hours, or that would allow you to telecommute a couple of days a week.

Mama Bear

Wed, May 13 2015, 8:28 am

After reading the whole thread I think you simply need a break. It's not *this* job that you hate, it's the grind and rush of working, plus taking care of the kids, plus taking care of the house. You feel like an indentured servant with no appreciation. This is very, very hard. So I think that drastic measures are not in order, you just need a break. If it's possible to find a way to take a little unpaid leave for a short while - say 2-4 weeks - just to recoup your strength, and then look at everything objectively and figure out solutions. Also, treat yourself!!! Get some free or inexpensive pleasures for yourself somehow so you don't feel so burned out. I think that deep down you're speaking with such desperation because you're simply, humanly burnt out and need a break. ((HUGS))

sequoia

Wed, May 13 2015, 8:36 am

Barbara, in all honesty:
There are many imamothers who are indeed homeschooling and stay at home moms, with their husbands' blessing of course. Do you deep down believe there is something wrong with that? That everyone ought to work in an office, everyone ought to send their kids to school -- everyone should do the same things? Because the vigor with which you defend OP's husband surprises me. Moreover since she is such a good person. I'm not. But she is! And I feel so bad for her. Is it terrible that different people have different personalities and strengths?

Barbara

Wed, May 13 2015, 8:48 am

sequoia wrote:

There's nothing wrong with being a SAHM if you can afford it.

There's nothing wrong with homeschooling if it is best for the children, both parents agree, and the parent who will be homeschooling has the knowledge and temperament to do so.

What I believe is that when you're married, you don't get to make all of the decision, and tell your spouse that s/he has to deal with it. That's the road to divorce.

What I believe is that sometimes, when you're a parent, when you're a spouse, you have to put on your big girl panties and do things that you don't want to do, because that's what's best for your family; and because when you're a parent, and a spouse, your wishes can't always come first. You don't get to act like a 4 year-old in the playground threatening to take his ball and go home if you don't get things your way. (And as it turns out, OP was merely venting there, she doesn't really intend to to that.)

ora_43

Wed, May 13 2015, 8:51 am

amother wrote:

One has asked to be homeschooled (she is very happy at school but loves being with me). The others don't really seem to have an opinion either way or are too young to really have an opinion (my 5 kids are 8 and under)

My husband won't consider a trial run (nor do I have spare vacation time for that). He is flat out against homeschooling.

I'm a bit confused by this. Most of your kids are still kindergarten or preschool age, then, yes? Is your dh against kids that age being home? Or is it that he wants to keep the older kids in school, and the only way to do that is if you work? Or he's afraid that if you start now, you'll never want to go back to work?

Do you know what his objections to homeschooling are? Is his opposition something that could change under the right circumstances (say, if several other families were also homeschooling)?

ora_43

Wed, May 13 2015, 8:52 am

Barbara wrote:

So he's supposed to go out and work long and hard hours, but apart from making money, he has no say in the education of the kids.

It's true that that wouldn't be fair, but OTOH, it sounds like right now it's the other way around, and that's not fair either. Why should OP work long and hard hours to buy her kids an education that she doesn't even want for them?

ora_43

Wed, May 13 2015, 8:55 am

Barbara wrote:

And I think that we all need to recall that the problems she cites are not the ordinary ones -- that she is overworked, or tired, or doesn't have enough help around the house. It's that working depresses her.

Therapy would help her figure out why that is, before she gives up a job that she tells us is interesting and flexible, only to find out that the stresses of homeschooling also depress her.

OP didn't explicitly say it's the usual problems, but I think a lot of us are assuming that "depressed" is a result of all the usual problems, plus the fact that she doesn't particularly want the thing (kids in school) that her salary is going toward.

Barbara

Wed, May 13 2015, 9:19 am

ora_43 wrote:

I haven't heard her say that she doesn't particularly want her children in school. Indeed, it sounded as if she was content with the schools. Rather, she said that she's willing to consider alternatives because of her issues.

Similarly, she hasn't cited any of what you call the "usual problems" at all. Just that working depresses her.

OP sounds quite articulate and intelligent to me. Its rather disrespectful to address problems you think she should have, not the ones she says that she does have.