I can't take this anymore

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Working Women

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Butterfly

Wed, May 13 2015, 2:31 am

imasoftov wrote:

I didn't know that askonim sat on beit dins.

In my community and in other's as well, if the askanam who assume that particular circumstances are quite fixable, they'ed play a big role prior to din Torah...
They usually help the couples with logical solutions and of course references to marriage counseling.

IMVHO, had competent askanim been involved in OP's case, she would have long been in counseling together with her husband...

finallyamommy

Wed, May 13 2015, 3:02 am

I've been thinking about this thread since I read it yesterday. Let me first say that I sympathize with OP--I'm also not the type who's so cut out to work, and when I worked full-time (for minimum wage, an hour's commute away) DH and I were both miserable (no kids yet). We're much happier now that I'm working part-time, and from home, and for not that much less money than I was bringing in on the full-time minimum wage job--and now I don't have to deal as much with fatigue, or a messy house, or begging for Shabbos invites out because neither of us has time to shop or cook. So I get it, not everyone can juggle full-time work. I won't judge you for that.

But, ready to divorce so that you don't have to work? Oh boy. :-( something has to change, I'm just not sure what can.

Firstly, OP, what would you be doing all day if you weren't working? Is the previous poster right (edit: sorry, not previous anymore, I took awhile to post this), and you'd have the luxury of being on top of the housework, cooking, and errands? Would that be okay, or would you end up feeling like a differnt type of shmatta - a Cinderella one instead of an income-earning one?

Is there an option to switch things around in your current job so that you could take some things home? Cut your hours in the office and make up the work from home in the evenings? Work once or twice a week from home? It's amazing how much easier things can be when you don't have to put on makeup and a sheitel and commute to the office, in my opinion.

Can the budget be overhauled? If we're right and you're the main housekeeper, I think your DH needs to realize you need some help, either from him or hired help. I promise hired help is possible if you're not already on a shoestring budget--cut out vacation, or takeout, or meat during the week.

What I'm most concerned about here is that both of you seem to be tossing around the word "divorce." That tells me your problems are deeper than whether you work or not. I know it seems that everyone recommends therapy, but in this case, I think it is warranted.

Sanguine

Wed, May 13 2015, 3:30 am

justcallmeima wrote:

I do actually have a practical suggestion. If your employer has 1 year mat leave, I'm guessing they have good disability insurance. I recommend that you go to a doctor and get a referral to a good psychiatrist.

I thought you were going to suggest that she have another baby and get another year of maternity leave Very Happy

. During that time she can retrain for a job that would suit her better.

But seriously (how many years can you keep up that maternity leave Wink

). OP, I don't think SAHM is really an option. You really never mentioned how many kids you have and what ages so everyone is really speaking in theory. (we also think your SB picture isn't clear - everyone ready to divorce if they don't get their way?? Rolling Eyes

). I think you're just in the wrong career for a mother of young children. I did that. I majored in computer programming in college. Got a great job and made more money than any of my friends. Me and DH left to work together at 8 AM and returned home close to 8 PM. We had money, we had each other but then the kids started coming and that plan never would have worked. (So we move to Israel, had more kids and stopped making money - this plan works - (for us Very Happy

)).

Are you home when your kids get home or do you have a babysitter till you're home? What if you get a grown woman instead (a bubby type) who will also prepare dinner?... Lots of Ideas, but that's really not what I'm getting to. But I don't think SAHM is the right option for you. I don't think you can afford SAHM. You never said what you do so it's really hard to advise. But any sort of teaching job is preferred cause it's less hours and you get vacations with the kids. If you're college professor level, that works too and pays better. But if you teach in your kid's schools you'll get a cut in tuition too.

I can't imagine that you and DH want to divorce over this matter (unless there's a lot more to your story). You and DH have to go over your finances and figure out how you can work part time in a lower paying job. I would imagine that if you both work full time in good jobs that you got used to a higher standard of life. Some are things you need because you work full time. Cleaning help, 2 cars, shredded lettuce, better clothes for you. Extra chugim (clubs) for the kids to go to, pool membership, summer camp, more expensive food (healthier or prepared)...

I think your problem is that you feel locked into your current career cause it pays well. It's time for you and DH to communicate. No one should ever feel that divorce is the answer (unless you're not telling us the full picture). Look at your entire financial picture together. Find places to cut out. Investigate a part time type of job for you.

I don't understand why your parents are supporting the idea of you divorcing your husband and moving in with them (also you're not clear on that). Maybe your parents can help with the tuition till you get into your new/part time job.

So you hate working full time. That's not a reason to divorce. What if you sell your house and all of you (including DH) move into your parents basement? Doesn't have to be forever but will take the financial pressure off. Is it a totally separate apartment? Let DH pay some rent for his family living there.

Overall, there are options (and I think you should keep you kids in Yeshiva). Your family has to stop living like a high two salary family. Sell your house. You can rent a small apartment if all of you, including DH, in your parents basement isn't a good idea. Retrain for a part time job for you. Just don't throw up your hands and say "DIVORCE"

chani8

Wed, May 13 2015, 4:07 am

If you cannot take your job anymore, and there is no way to help you get your mojo back, then for your well being, seems to me, you very well may need to quit. It's really ok. You are human and have your limitations and needs. You matter.

However, your DH is terrified of your quitting because of the financial hardship it will cause. Perhaps a compromise is to find a job that you can do at home. If you could find a solution for parnossoh before you quit, I think it would resolve your shalom bayis problem. I am sorry, though, that your DH is not more supportive. I can understand his POV as well as yours, though, and hope you can work this out together.

rowo

Wed, May 13 2015, 4:13 am

Oy, it sounds like you're in a pretty tough place right now.
You're saying something and your husband isn't hearing what you're saying.
It seems like youre overwhelmed and feel like your are not coping, you are miserable and under a lot of pressure. And all he is thinking about is the finances, while you are talking about your mental and emotional wellbeing.
You guys could probably use some counselling or mediation to work out what the other is saying. And once you each have a clear understanding you can work towards a solution.

Based on the info you gave we have no idea what type of life you lead and your budget.
It very well might be that there are other ways to work this out.
I agree with a previous poster who suggested you look at your finances as income and expenses, rather than I cover this, you cover that.
If you look at your expenses there might be other ways you cut down, which could potentially enable you to work less . Or maybe find some other work that does bring you satisfaction.

If your parents are so involved and concerned, maybe you could ask them for help in a different way. Maybe they could give you a loan to start a small home based business?

Good luck! It sounds like you're at the end of the line. I hope you work out something

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 13 2015, 4:35 am

Barbara wrote:

No. He's saying "there's no realistic alternative." Big difference.

No, he's saying that he doesn't like the alternatives, regardless of the toll it's taking on me.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 13 2015, 4:44 am

imaima wrote:

I wonder why no one is getting that OP has probably much bigger marital problems than just tuition.

They seem to run their home like a business and where are feelings? How come they are so ready to jump to divorce as long as one needs to work and the other one needs to be a sole breadwinner? What would be if she lost her job for a reason out of her control, would he just throw her out??

And what if he lost his job, would OP do? If he got ill and op would have to work even more to just pay the bills? Would she bury her head in the sand and move in with her parents so she doesn't have to deal with this loser of a husband?

Nowhere in this story have I seen two people who sat down to find a solution together.

There is no need to berate OP for being ready to divorce, her dh is just as guilty. If you agree that marriage is tit for tat, then this structure is very fragile. Not always are both spouses able bodied and ready to contribute equally.

That being said, Op needs a reality check. Do you think a private tutor for kodesh will be much cheaper for your kids? Or that being burnt out as you are, you will be able to successfully homeschool them on the same level they are in a proper school? Doesn't sound like it is the case.

We really don't have other issues. We do have a loving marriage. My husband feels trapped by our financial situation as well. If finances weren't involved, he would be totally happy to have me quit my job. We've been through hard times (including a job layoff) and I worked lots of overtime to support us (80 hour weeks while pregnant). He's doing his part by working hard but it's definitely not enough for us. I definitely don't appreciate you calling my husband a loser.

Yes, I could homeschool (and would love to!). I only have girls so higher level gemara and mishna isn't a problem. I received a good enough education myself to homeschool them. My husband is flat out against homeschooling.

Iymnok

Wed, May 13 2015, 4:44 am

If you can't sit together, sit yourself and map out all income and expenses. Subtract your income and benefits.
Do research on other viable income possibilities that you would be happier with.

Have you sat down together to discuss this or just argued? It doesn't sound healthy for either of you.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 13 2015, 4:48 am

Barbara wrote:

You have GOT to be kidding.

Ozzy and Harriet are dead. That's not the way it works in 21st century America.

He did sign a contract that he would support me.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 13 2015, 4:52 am

Iymnok wrote:

We've been discussing this for years. We live very frugally. There aren't really any expenses we can cut (short of life insurance, which wouldn't make a real dent in our expenses and is really important IMO). We don't have a large mortgage (it's the equivalent of a small 2 bedroom apartment here). We do our own cleaning and lawn care. We reuse ziploc bags, we eat a lot of cheap foods (beans, lentils, rice etc). We don't eat out except on our anniversary. We do all this to stay out of debt and pay our obligations.

I've researched lots of alternative careers and none of them sound any better than what I am currently doing, pay less and are less stable. At least I am good enough at my job here to have stability.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 13 2015, 4:57 am

esheschayil wrote:

Thanks for the sympathy. It's nice to hear from the posters who don't think I'm totally crazy and understand the toll it's taking on me.

I would be absolutely fine doing all the housework and running a home. I thrive in that situation. I've done it multiple times during maternity leave (unpaid for most of it - I wish it were paid for a year!) and did not want to go back.

We really don't throw the word divorce around at all. In fact, neither of us have ever said the word out loud. DH has voiced his opinion about this being a red line. I've never even come close to saying anything like that even.

I'm not leaving him. I love him and my kids too much to do that. I am definitely feeling desperate though.

amother

Vermilion

Wed, May 13 2015, 5:04 am

I don't understand why you have to get divorced to quit your job. Why not quit your job and then see if your husband leaves you? You might end up divorced and living with your parents, or he might be forced to confront his fears and reservations about you not working and/or come up with alternative solutions. Sounds like it's worth the risk. I wouldn't suggest going about this as a l'chatchila, but if he refuses to work on this with you, and you are really at your breaking point with absolutely no alternatives, then it seems like a more logical step.

I would also advise you to not fall into the trap of black and white thinking-- sometimes there are smaller changes that can be made that will make all the difference in how you cope, even if the core issue isn't being completely solved. It almost sounds like your husband's extremism (which is likely a result of his traumatic upbringing) has forced you into a position of extremism on the other end. Maybe try step out of the negative dynamic you've created and see if there is any room in between what you have set out to be the two options... (And this is a great thing to do with a therapist)

amother

Vermilion

Wed, May 13 2015, 5:08 am

Just saw your post, glad to hear you aren't actually about to divorce him. It sounds like your husband's fears are controlling your marriage, and you are working so hard without any validation or appreciation. It doesn't mean to you what it means to your husband, but you are both working with his definition and expectations, which is definitely extreme.

If you really love each other, you are excellent candidates for couples therapy. Maybe try that before you quit your job.

animeme

Wed, May 13 2015, 5:10 am

I don't know where you live, or how old your girls are, but I would at least research homeschooling coops in your area. Some people's objections to home school reduce when the kids have daily social interactions, and it broadens the material and expertise if the teaching. You can ask your parents to finance textbooks and auxiliary extracurriculars, if need be.

This summer, can you take a week off and practice, show DH how it would work? Come up with a fun curriculum, be busy with it every day, show how the household would run? You would also get an idea of how your kids would manage.

ora_43

Wed, May 13 2015, 5:18 am

Quote:

Yes, I could homeschool (and would love to!). I only have girls so higher level gemara and mishna isn't a problem. I received a good enough education myself to homeschool them. My husband is flat out against homeschooling.

What do your kids think of homeschooling?

sequoia

Wed, May 13 2015, 5:24 am

Yeah I think it's time to play poker. Odds are he won't divorce you or anything.

happybeingamom

Wed, May 13 2015, 5:27 am

animeme wrote:

Great idea a trial run but I would look to try it out for a few weeks, can you take a leave of absence? Also write out a budget without your income.

Another suggestion, can you do babysitting at home? It is harder then being a SAHM but it will give you the home environment with some income.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, May 13 2015, 5:43 am

ora_43 wrote:

Quote:

What do your kids think of homeschooling?

One has asked to be homeschooled (she is very happy at school but loves being with me). The others don't really seem to have an opinion either way or are too young to really have an opinion (my 5 kids are 8 and under)

My husband won't consider a trial run (nor do I have spare vacation time for that). He is flat out against homeschooling.

chayamiriam

Wed, May 13 2015, 5:53 am

I hate to sound harsh but sometimes the truth is hard to hear! When you become a mom you and your husband are responsible for both the physical and spiritual welfare of your children. Your husband is trying to do the right thing he is not staying home saying he hates his job! He wants you to contribute your share of the responsibilities and yes yeshiva is a big part of those responsibilities Sometime we just have to grow up divorcing him so he is forced to pay tuition is horrible! Depriving children of their dad and way of life to live in a basement is nuts in my book. I got divorced with three kids I didn't have a basement to move into just worked two crazy jobs to pay rent and yes yeshiva tuition!

imaima

Wed, May 13 2015, 6:01 am

amother wrote:

Don't take my words out of the context.

Now you got everyone confused with this divorced business. Turns out it's not as bad as it seems.
Have you considered cardinal changes like moving to a cheaper city/country?

Page 5 of 9

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next