Am I being obnoxious

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5*Mom

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 12:53 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Doesn't the nonprofit code their direct mail to keep it separate from mail due to telemarketing efforts?

And is OP recording that? That would make the data meaningful.

If the organization isn't already tracking the effectiveness of their various marketing strategies, that's irresponsible for a nonprofit and indicates that they aren't exactly marketing experts. You could and should definitely suggest that they consult with an expert to begin doing this. But if all you have is your informal *mailing* column and *telemarketing* column, then your information is meaningless and misleading and should not be used.

sky

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 1:52 pm

does the telemarketing bring in additional names and addresses to add to the standard mailing.

amother

Cyan

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:36 pm

5*Mom wrote:

op here. yes I know based on envelopes what came from callers and what came from mailing. how else would I be keeping track of what came from what.

5*Mom

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:50 pm

amother wrote:

op here. yes I know based on envelopes what came from callers and what came from mailing. how else would I be keeping track of what came from what.

This is inconsistent with what you've said earlier about educated guesses and margin of error.

You'd be keeping track based on credit card donations made over the phone vs. envelopes received.

LiLIsraeli

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 2:58 pm

Okay, I'll say it. Yes, you are being obnoxious. It's one thing if the organization was losing money. But they're not. And to possibly cost someone their job so there would be less work for you? Worse than obnoxious.

Simple1

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:00 pm

Your motivations seem more based on personal reasons, than concern for the organization. So you will probably be biased and it's best to ask a Rav.

I would agree with sky, maybe there are ways they can work more efficiently and to make a profit. People are donating money - it should not be wasted.

As far as you being overworked, that should be dealt with separately.

amother

Cyan

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:04 pm

sky wrote:

does the telemarketing bring in additional names and addresses to add to the standard mailing.

no the telemarketing is not bringing up new names. the callers are just calling the people who gave to our organizations various raffles the past few years

amother

Cyan

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:11 pm

5*Mom wrote:

This is inconsistent with what you've said earlier about educated guesses and margin of error.

You'd be keeping track based on credit card donations made over the phone vs. envelopes received.

the envelopes are coded differently and that is how I know what came from what. if someone says send an envelope than they get an envelope from the original mailing and that would be recorded as a mail as opposed to a caller. that is the margin of error I was talking about. this year because of this thread I am going to fix that problem and make sure they get a different envelope. I am recording this either way. the question is to show it to anyone or not. this person who is in charge of the callers is not an employee that would be let be go she is a.freelancer who works for a few months for us.

5*Mom

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:25 pm

amother wrote:

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense.

octopus

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:37 pm

I might pledge over the phone, but tell the caller to send me the envelope because I prefer not to give out my CC over the phone. I don't think your system is fool proof and might very well be inaccurate.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 3:37 pm

amother wrote:

no the telemarketing is not bringing up new names. the callers are just calling the people who gave to our organizations various raffles the past few years

Are these the same names that got the direct mailing?

Fox

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 4:01 pm

Look, this has absolutely nothing to do with the long-term viability of someone's job.

The fact that your organization is just now starting to track the source of various contributions connected with their campaign is scandalous enough. They are obviously trying to be more responsible stewards of the money they receive, and they should be applauded for that.

I've worked with organizations on campaigns like this for almost twenty years, and the typical breakdown will show the response rate based on a mailing only and the response rate based on mailing plus phone call. There may be additional response rate categories, such as follow-up calls and rented lists.

Most non-profit software has built-in ways to track response rates from various methods of contact and show total contributions, average contribution, rate of response, and even subsequent response (response to additional appeals during the year). It shouldn't require excessive additional work on your part.

One thing is important to stress: allocating resources in fundraising campaigns should not just be a quick calculation of "how much did we spend" versus "how much did we get"! The goal is to spend the fundraising budget as wisely as possible.

Therefore, it's entirely possible that a telemarketing campaign may have no effect on the rate of response, but may increase the average donation amount. Or vice versa. Many organizations I've worked with find that they are better off trimming the mailing list but have telemarketers make calls.

The people who are giving money to your organization would be very disappointed to find that data was being manipulated or simply not presented to executives because someone in the organization wanted less work or wanted to preserve an additional job. That's misplaced rachmones. Do the job you were hired to do, and let the executives and Hashem worry about the allocation of work.

Heyaaa

Wed, Feb 10 2016, 11:14 pm

If you feel you're overworked why not tell your employer and maybe they can hire someone to help you with the raffle or maybe one of the telemarketers could be your assistant instead of making phone calls.

5*Mom

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 12:07 am

Fox wrote:

The fact that your organization is just now starting to track the source of various contributions connected with their campaign is scandalous enough. They are obviously trying to be more responsible stewards of the money they receive, and they should be applauded for that.

Fox, I think you missed something. Her organization is not tracking the source of contributions. OP is doing it completely on her own initiative, unbeknownst to her employers. They are not trying to be more responsible with their donated money.

Fox wrote:

One thing is important to stress: allocating resources in fundraising campaigns should not just be a quick calculation of "how much did we spend" versus "how much did we get"! The goal is to spend the fundraising budget as wisely as possible.

Yet this is kinda how OP is calculating the funds: slapdash, based on I'm not sure what since she says that mailing money and telemarketing money ultimately comes in in the same kind of envelope, so she really has no idea what is what. Her idea is a valuable one (having nothing to do with her workload or anyone's job) but her method is seriously flawed and her data is meaningless.

Fox wrote:

The people who are giving money to your organization would be very disappointed to find that data was being manipulated or simply not presented to executives because someone in the organization wanted less work or wanted to preserve an additional job. That's misplaced rachmones. Do the job you were hired to do, and let the executives and Hashem worry about the allocation of work.

This I agree with. Don't present misleading data. Do suggest to your bosses that the organization use proven donation tracking methods to be sure they are using their funds in the best way possible.

groovy1224

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 4:26 am

I think you shouldn't say anything outright, because it's pretty clear that this 'market research' is just a front for the real reason you want to talk to your bosses- the fact that the telemarketing causes extra work for you.
Why can't you just go talk you them about that? If you really have such a huge workload, tell them that it's too much. Or ask for a raise. If it comes up in the course of that meeting, casually mention that the telemarketing doesn't seem to you too to make as much money as it's worth. If they seem interested in your data, hand it over. If not, then there you go.
I don't understand why you'd complain about having extra work, and then compound it by doing this secret investigation that you don't even know they'll care about. If you have a problem with your workload, speak your piece. No need to make a PowerPoint presentation about it.

ora_43

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 5:13 am

I think you should suggest to your boss that the organization keep track of the numbers. They really should be doing it already. And it would make sense coming from you, since it sounds like you do the computer-related stuff - something like "Boss, we have computer software that would allow me to track the various expenses and incomes so that we can see what works and what doesn't. Would you like me to do that?"

Gathering relevant data isn't obnoxious, it's a necessary part of responsible money management. Calling people at home and pestering them for just enough money so that you can afford to keep pestering them for money - that would be obnoxious.

STMommy

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 6:00 am

amother wrote:

My question is simply after I kept track of what is pledge and what is mail can I give the information to the higher ups and say by the way I kept track of mail and callers separate this year and here are the numbers.

Yes. This is exactly what I would have suggested you do.

amother

Cyan

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 6:25 am

I love how this thread got to become my method for calculating data not my question of can I simply show the data to bosses. I don't want to go into too much detail how I know what it is what to give away who I am and where I work but envelopes are coded and 95% of the time I know exactly where the money is coming from a caller or the mail. For me to record what came from what is no extra time for me and honestly from a bookkeeping perspective should have been done all along especially since they track the expenses as caller and mail. The question here is with data that is 95 percent accurate can I approach the bosses and say by the way I kept track separately of what came in as what caller vs mail when I know full well that this might make management rethink the caller end of the raffle and someone will lose their job. The person in charge of the callers is not an employee here. She is a freelancer who works for a couple of months for us.

Raisin

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 6:30 am

the only positive thing about this is that you are giving parnassah to the people who make the calls.

5*Mom

Thu, Feb 11 2016, 6:41 am

amother wrote:

I love how this thread got to become my method for calculating data not my question of can I simply show the data to bosses.

You really don't see the relevance?

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