How come Yeshivas Mir is calling back the bochurim?

imaima

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 2:33 pm

amother OP wrote:

Maybe not in the way you're taking it.

Ok I know everything about Torah and chayalim and Israelis and the safety of Jerusalem.

I do not want to discuss this. Thanks.

From this post on

If you are a mother in the USA and have a bochur in Mir What are you doing?

I only want to hear replies from mothers that are in this situation. Thanks.

Wow you just insulted a group of people and now you are shutting them up.

I am in this situation. I guess you expect all the careful families to move out of EY and everyone who stays will be labeled careless

Living Princess

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 2:38 pm

Please everyone, let's all treat each other with respect and kindness!

amother

Mayflower

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 2:40 pm

amother Narcissus wrote:

I do know Israeli's and her comment is spot on.
I think that Israeli's have way more emunah and bitachon then those in chul, which results in them being more calm, happy, and careless. It's a good thing, not a negative.

More emunah and bitachon does not make one careless. Everything else is positve but not careless.

imaima

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 2:42 pm

amother OP wrote:

I am not angry at all. I am frustrated that the thread keeps going off topic so that might be coming through.

What I was hoping to achieve with this thread was...

I am confused how they can call bochurim into a danger zone and was wondering if other parents share this.

I am curious what other parents are doing oif lemeisah.

Your thoughtless expression reflects the core of the issue. Your opinion about the situation in jlm differs from the opinion of the rabbonim there. They think it’s safe and you don’t. A lot of what shapes our perception of danger is media and our own imagination. It may be just you.

AlwaysGrateful

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 2:43 pm

amother Mayflower wrote:

More emunah and bitachon does not make one careless. Everything else is positve but not careless.

From context, it looks like she meant "carefree." Similar words, different connotations.

amother

Hyssop

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 2:43 pm

LADIES!! There's so much pain and judgement in this thread, from both sides!
I think OP made a mistake in her wording. Unfortunately, it really insulted many of us.
She also did not ask her TRUE question- which is "Should I send my son back to Mir in EY if I'm nervous?"
And no one can answer that question for you, op, except you, your son, your husband, and your rav.
Hatzlacha, and no matter what you do, the merit of klall yisroel's learning and emunah should keep all of us safe all over the world.

imaima

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 2:46 pm

amother Bergamot wrote:

Because Israel is a tiny country with nowhere to escape if airports are closed. It is surrounded by millions of bloodthirsty Arabs.

In the US, I can leave the tri-state area and hide if need be. It’s a massive country.

What about antisemitic rednecks?

amother

Chambray

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 2:48 pm

Op, I have the same dilemma. Those of us living outside of Israel are just so afraid. I feel it's irresponsible of me to send my son back and on the other hand he needs to go back if that's what the hanhala is asking. I'm begging Hashem to help and give me clarity.

amother

Narcissus

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 2:48 pm

amother Mayflower wrote:

More emunah and bitachon does not make one careless. Everything else is positve but not careless.

Carefree

amother

Mayflower

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 2:49 pm

amother Bergamot wrote:

Sigh...
Said all the hidden jews during ww2. They didnt all survive.
Many were found.
Amother, tell yourself whatever you need to to make yourself feel better.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 3:00 pm

yerushalayim is the safest place in the world right now. Were definitely not safer here
Also going into gaza keeps being pushed off. now they're not going in this week maybe not next week. Theres only much they can keep the boys back.

amother

Scarlet

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 3:03 pm

amother Chambray wrote:

Why can't he learn in a different yeshiva?

amother

Pistachio

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 3:03 pm

My son was also upstate in the Mir and will be going to E'Y after shabbos, hopefully. I also feel a bit wistful, I was so hoping that they would have yeshiva here for another few weeks. I definitely worry less!

But, E'Y is the best place for him to learn right now, and so he will be going iy'h. I know you are worried, I am too. Other yeshivas (Pragers and others my son told me that I can't remember) who opened up a satellite space in the US are also finishing up this week and the boys will be going to Israel. Things have stabilized somewhat, so it is time. It is hard. I'm not pretending. But honestly, I'm worried about everyone, all the people of israel, the chayalim, the whole Jewish people, so I'm not sure where my worry about my children starts or ends, its such a heartache. I tell myself, that Hashem never sleeps, He watches over the Jewish people. And He will watch my children as well as everyone else's.

amother

Chestnut

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 3:06 pm

amother Pistachio wrote:

Sending you a real genuine hug. You are a real hero. May he and all the lone yeshiva boys and seminary girls feel a special shemira from hashem and a unique pride of belonging to something so much greater then themselves.

amother

NeonGreen

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 3:08 pm

To anyone wondering how we know that Eretz Yisroel merits special protection -
we find this explicitly in the posuk:
"ארץ אשר ה' אלוקיך דורש אותה תמיד..
עיני ה' אלוקיך בה מראשית השנה ועד אחריתה...."
It is a land that Hashem is constantly watching - from the beginning of the year to the year's end.

And as pointed out by Rav Sternbuch, Shlita, this special merit comes bundled with an extra degree of obligation -
It is both an honor and a DUTY to live in Eretz Yisroel, and in Yerushalayim, in particular.
But to merit this supernatural protection, one should, ideally, live in consonance with the holiness of the surroundings.
It's a sobering thought.
Fortunately, there is no shortage of miracles to keep our emunah alive!
Two southern kibbutzim decided to keep Shabbos only recently and began locking their gates on Erev Shabbos to prevent vehicles from entering.
The safety cams show how truckloads of terrorists approached these gates on the day of the massacre but got frustrated with the locks and drove away to continue their horrific rampage elsewhere. (Hard to fathom, seeing as they had no problem blowing up the security fence dividing Gaza from Israel to begin with... why did a few locks deter them, if not for Hashem's special protection?)
Those 2 kibbutzim were saved, it would seem, through Shabbos observance.
Several teens who had taken upon themselves to keep Shabbos just before Succos left the nature rave early on Friday afternoon - after wrestling with the temptation to stay on at the party.
Their steadfast commitment saved their lives (as told by the Rav whose shiurim they had attended and who they told this to...).
A frum family with 16 children experienced a direct hit by a rocket in their home in Netivot, a house in which they hosted a regular minyan, and every single one of them emerged with barely a scratch - looking at the photos of their home, you'd imagine they were all in a better world by now... :-(. The father spoke on an Israeli news channel and said it was an open miracle).

We need to daven that the incredible awakening to Achdus and mitzva observance - or at the very least the belief that Hashem is the only One we can place our trust in - will continue to spread among all the Jews living in Israel today and that the merit of this mass awakening will protect us all and bring Mashiach closer.

As for those living abroad - I do not wish to alarm anyone, but I find it hard to understand your complacency.
Just look around you.
America is a sick, sick country.
Going by everything I have read and learned over the past few years (which is plenty) this once great-nation is imploding from within -
Socio-politically, ethically (I.e. woke ideologies, the LGBTQ agenda, the proliferation of mind-numbing social media, and the steep slipping of educational standards), geographically (the effects of global warming which getting more devastating by the year), and even financially (the dollar will not remain the world's reserve currency for much longer, and digital currencies, though still a great unknown - could, at least theoretically, be used to sever human rights, and steal your freedom).
I haven't even touched upon the very real, rising dangers of AI - developed and nurtured in US corporate headquarters - which, in the hands of bad actors, could be disastrous.
Apart from all that - which may seem like a melodramatic warning to some hazy threats lying far off in the future,
With the current war in Israel, and the IDF's retaliation in Gaza, it is not inconceivable that the antisemitism you see around you may quickly spread to truly dangerous levels.

Yet what is surprising, is that anyone should be taken by surprised...
The writing has long been on the wall!!!
Why do I say this?
Because as a nation, none of us were predestined to stay in the USA (or the UK, or France, or anywhere else but Israel) forever.
Our future has always been life in the holy land, and sooner or later we should all expect to find ourselves there/here!!!
My concern is that if you wait too long, many of you may find yourselves unable to leave when it matters most.
As an onlooker peering in from the outside - I find it hard to understand how so many yidden fail to see what seems so obvious to me.
What are you waiting for???
We've acted through this "script" before. Several times, in fact. And the ending was never pretty.
It's time to change the script.
To create your own glorious, grand finale - and bring Mashiach.
Just come.

amother

Bergamot

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 3:24 pm

amother NeonGreen wrote:

To anyone wondering how we know that Eretz Yisroel merits special protection -
this is said explicitly in the posuk:
"ארץ אשר ה' אלוקיך דורש אותה תמיד..
עיני ה' אלוקיך בה מראשית השנה ועד אחריתה...."
It is a land that Hashem is constantly watching - from the beginning of the year to its end.

And as pointed out by Rav Sternbuch, Shlita, this special merit comes bundled with an extra degree of obligation -
It's both and honor and a DUTY to live in Eretz Yisroel, and in Yerushalayim in particular. But to merit this extra level of protection, one should, ideally, live in consonance with the holiness of the surroundings. It's a sobering thought.
But there are so many examples all around us:
Two southern kibbutzim who had decided to keep Shabbos only recently, began locking their gates on Erev shabbos to prevent cars from entering the kibbutz.
Videocams show how the terrorists approached these gates on the day of the massacre but got frustrated with the locks and drove away to continue their horrific rampage elsewhere. Those 2 kibbutzim were clearly saved by their commitment to Shabbos observance.
Several teens who had taken upon themselves to keep Shabbos just before Succos left the nature rave early on Friday afternoon - after wrestling with the temptation to stay on at the party.
Their steadfast commitment saved their lives (as told by the Rav whose shiurim they had attended and who they told this to...).
A frum family with 16 children experienced a direct hit by a rocket in their home in Netivot, and every single one of them emerged with barely a scratch - looking at the photos of their home, you'd imagine they were all in a better world by now... :-(. The father spoke on an Israeli news channel and said it was an open miracle.

We need to daven that the incredible awakening to Achdus and mitzva observance - or at the very least the belief that Hashem is the only One we can place our trust in - will continue to spread among all the Jews living in Israel today and that the merit of this mass awakening will protect us all and bring Mashiach closer.

As for all of you living in chul - I find it hard to understand your complacency.
Just look around you.
America is a sick, sick country. It's imploding from within -
Socio-politically, ethically (I.e. woke ideologies and the LGBTQ agenda), geographically (the effects of global warming are getting more devastating by the year), and even financially (the dollar will not remain the world's reserve currency for much longer, and digital currencies are still a great unknown - but could, at least theoretically, be used to trample human rights, and steal your freedom).
I haven't even touched upon the very real, rising dangers of AI - developed and nurtured in US corporate headquarters - which, in the hands of bad actors, could be disastrous.
With the current war in Israel, and the IDF's retaliation in Gaza, it is not inconceivable that the antisemitism you see around you may spread to truly dangerous levels.
But I am not surprised by any of this.
The writing has long been on the wall.
Why do I say this?
Because as a nation, none of us were predestined to stay in the USA (or the UK, or France, or anywhere else but Israel) forever.
Our future has always been life in the holy land, sooner or later.
My concern is that if you wait too long, many of you may find yourselves unable to leave when it matters most.
As an onlooker peering in from the outside - I find it hard to understand how so many yidden fail to see what seems so obvious to me.
What are you waiting for???
We've acted through this "script" before. Several times, in fact. And the ending was never pretty.
It's time to change the script.
To create your own glorious, grand finale - and bring Mashiach.
Just come.

Israel is just as pro LGBTQ as America is. Global warming affects Israel just as much as far as I’m aware. It’s called “global” for a reason. The shekel is not the world’s reserve currency, who cares if the dollar isn’t someday. AI could affect you in Israel the same as here but I think fears are overblown anyways. Tel Aviv is a tech center.

There are Arabs living in Israel that are more bloodthirsty, their culture is to viciously and brutally attack. Westerners aren’t raised like that, it takes mental illness to make someone violent, even if they have pro Palestinian views.

amother

Glitter

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 3:32 pm

@Bergamot, some of the suicide attacks in Israel were carried out by terrorists from sleeper cells in other countries. They are absolutely bloodthirsty elsewhere as well.

Regardless, please be careful how you talk about Eretz Yisrael. You don't have to come live here, but you do need to be careful how you speak about the country.

amother

Glitter

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 3:35 pm

@Bergamot, please read this article about being careful how you speak about Eretz Yisrael, before you continue writing your views here: https://mishpacha.com/to-make-a-difference/

amother

Magnolia

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 3:36 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

Wow!! This thread reminds me how thankful I am that I moved to EY and can raise my kids between people that have real emunah. Sadly I spoke like the some of you when I was in the USA just a few years ago. Come here for a few months, your life will change for the better.
You have no idea what it's like to live a life of peace and tranquility by leaving it all up to Hashem!
I wish it upon all of you!

Just reminding you that not all of us who live in chu”l feel like Op and another bergamot
Bh my emunah and bitachon are very very strong and I have the deepest desire to be in ey bdavka right now.

amother

NeonPurple

Tue, Oct 24 2023, 3:38 pm

amother Chestnut wrote:

What a wonderful and sweet thing to say. My son is going back next week as well, of course I worry. Of course I would love for him to stay close. But the best shmira for Yerushalayim and E"Y is our precious bochurim learning Torah there. Thats what he wants.