"Did your daughter dress herself this morning"?

Chayalle

Fri, Feb 08 2013, 11:47 am

Tova wrote:

My daughter (age 4) went to playgroup in her velour Shabbos robe this morning. Someone had just given me a bag of clothes their daughter outgrew and we were trying stuff on. I don't care. It's warm and weather appropriate, and I just told my husband to mention this when he dropped her off (the Morah always says to let her know if we want her to emphasize something...so hopefully she'll slip in somewhere about listening to parents about what to wear). It was not worth the fight as long as it was weather appropriate, neat and clean.

One little girl in DD's playgroup did that a few weeks ago, also on Friday, since she was the Shabbos Mommy. It was cute!

Fri, Feb 08 2013, 2:39 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Yeah, but do teachers then look at which kids are wearing Target shoes and which are wearing Vennetini?

My daughter is of the former. I sincerely hope she's not respected any less because of that when she starts wearing a uniform next year...

I would hope not.

I think it's not just the teachers but the kids themselves. I remember when I was in kindergarten, there was one girl who came in all dolled up every day....and everyone wanted to be her friend, sit next to her, etc....and one kid who looked rather neglected, and definitely suffered for it.

With everyone in uniform, the pressure is reduced (though individuality suffers too).

Kids in kindergarten notice whose shoes came from Target? Really?
And do those kids look neglected? Only if wearing suitable, well-fitting shoes in reasonably good condition is neglected.
Oy, vey.

lizard8

Fri, Feb 08 2013, 3:06 pm

I started letting 2yo dd pick out her clothing. I usually ask her to choose a top, and Ill give her a bottom that matches. Sometimes she want to choose the bottom, and so far she's matching- most of her bottoms are black jeggings, jegging, dark skirts, so she can't go so wrong. She also remembers the outfits, and will look for the match.
Getting dressed is another story. She is learning how to dress herself, but there is still a lot of learning to do Smile

. I try to compromise with her by letting her do the pants and undershirt and while I do shirt and socks.

amother

Fri, Feb 08 2013, 3:10 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

amother wrote:

I think every mother who is conscientious about her children feels the same way I do when they see children looking neglected.

And I think that was a horrible and judgmental thing for you to say. How dare you decide who is conscientious or not based on a few wrinkles? Mad

At least post under your own screen name, if you're so proud of your satorially superior family.

This is another remark that I originally thought wasn't worth addressing because your conclusion does not follow logically.

I am amother because I talked about chessed I do. I don't discuss it IRL except to get coverage for the little girl when I am away for a few weeks. I also never link my chesed with my SN.

I never said I get to decide who is a conscientious mother. I said I feel sorry for neglected children who leave their homes looking less than their peers. It is about the children.

In most cases where the children are not presentable there is a story for the neglect. The little girl I help is a child whose mother walked away from the family.

Barbara

Fri, Feb 08 2013, 3:25 pm

amother wrote:

FranticFrummie wrote:

amother wrote:

I think every mother who is conscientious about her children feels the same way I do when they see children looking neglected.

And I think that was a horrible and judgmental thing for you to say. How dare you decide who is conscientious or not based on a few wrinkles? Mad

At least post under your own screen name, if you're so proud of your satorially superior family.

Amother, perhaps you don't recognize it, but it seems to me, and apparently to others, that you are judging others, including those of us who don't meet your standards of dressing children.

If you want to iron hair ribbons, go for it. We clearly live in different communities with different standards, as I honestly cannot recall the last time I saw a girl wearing a hair ribbon, much less an ironed one.

But there is a real difference between saying "I like my children to look a certain way," and saying "those who don't meet my standards (eg, toddlers with unironed pants) are 'neglected,'" and that you feel sorry for them.

But I will confess to envying you, if you live in a world in which a child whose shirt is a bit wrinkled, or whose clothes are mismatched, is considered to be neglected.

Chayalle

Fri, Feb 08 2013, 3:34 pm

cm wrote:

Chayalle wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Kids in kindergarten notice whose shoes came from Target? Really?
And do those kids look neglected? Only if wearing suitable, well-fitting shoes in reasonably good condition is neglected.
Oy, vey.

That's not what I said.

I said kids in kindergarten notice kids who look very dressed up. I was still discussing what a previous amother wrote, about people being nice to the kids who look "cute". And I said it's not just teachers but also the kids themselves.

Sorry for not being clear.

amother

Fri, Feb 08 2013, 3:56 pm

Barbara wrote:

amother wrote:

FranticFrummie wrote:

amother wrote:

I think every mother who is conscientious about her children feels the same way I do when they see children looking neglected.

And I think that was a horrible and judgmental thing for you to say. How dare you decide who is conscientious or not based on a few wrinkles? Mad

At least post under your own screen name, if you're so proud of your satorially superior family.

It is when the community standards are not being met that makes me feel very bad for the children. When every other child is presentable except for children from a certain few families I am not the only one who notices. That little girl was ashamed of her appearance. Children are more aware than we often give them credit for. No child wants to be different than their peers.

I wouldn't dress my boys in khaki pants, boat shoes and a blue blazer when every other boy in the community is dressing in black pants and long sleeved striped polo shirts. Those boys are not going to be comfortable either.

If I am judgmental for feeling bad for neglected children then it is my character flaw. A child whose shirt is a bit wrinkled doesn't tug at my heart at all. I child that looks like a unkempt slob triggers a big pity feeling in me.

FTR OP's daughter sounds charmingly cute with the kooky mismatched look and she sounds like an indulgent mommy whose daughter is clean and otherwise presentable. She is obviously a conscientious mom since I have been accused of judging so I might as well.

Isramom8

Sat, Feb 09 2013, 3:26 pm

Can anyone post a picture of kids who are mismatched but still look cared for? I'm wondering just how mismatched people are saying is okay with them. Do you mean the Gymboree coordinated look, with polks dots and stripes that are created to look good together? Or just like, totally clashing patterns and colors?

I really don't see myself as a freak-out mom, but I definitely give my kids a glance before they leave the house too see if they look appropriate, so I'm confused about which type of mother I classify as in this thread.

A few examples of what I tend to speak up about:

1. In the past, I said no navy with black, as in navy tights with a black skirt. But since Imamother told me that navy goes with black nowadays, I allow it.

2. I can change my little boys' Shabbos shirts two or three times during a Shabbos and Motzaei Shabbos so that they're wearing clean ones.

3. Girls' hair has to be recently brushed and tied back before they leave the house to go somewhere.

4. For events where we appear as a family like shul on Yom Tov or visiting friends in a very Chareidi neighborhood, I approve every part of each kid's outfit.

5. At home you can chill as long as you are tzanua. Girls can be without socks if only family is home. Boys need at least an undershirt and pants.

bigsis144

Sat, Feb 09 2013, 10:29 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

This is why I will never be a hipster or a fashionista. I have NO IDEA how to do this. THIS is why all my skirts are black. I am an unadventurous nerd with not a stitch (pun!) of fashion sense.

Here are some pictures from blog posts about "how to mix patterns" -- imamothers who know fashion, what say you?

Sun, Feb 10 2013, 7:24 am

Isramom8 wrote:

I think the difference in attitude demonstrated in this thread is that those of us who allow young children to wear mismatched outfits do not feel these children appear to be uncared for. We think it is normal for little girls (I don't have experience with boys) to pick out wildly unmatched clothing, and that there is nothing wrong with allowing them this small control over their daily lives. The phase is adorable, while it lasts.

I think that covers number 1.

2 - well, if a child is truly unsanitary, it's time to change. Some kids get dirtier than others.

3 - if hair is long, it helps to be in a ponytail or braid to avoid tangles. Some kids look unbrushed as soon as you're done with them. You can't tell by looking how attentive the parents are.

4 - We're not chareidi, so I don't really know what you mean. My kid has shul clothes, which are different from play clothes. During the very-little-girl stage that we are addressing, my little girl would tie the sash of her shul dress in the front, because that way she could dress herself. Why would I insist that it needs to be done in the back? It's just not that important, not nearly as important as her developmentally-appropriate enthusiasm to "do it myself!"

Number 5 is a different topic altogether. Everyone here makes minimum standards for their children, and gives them boundaries for behavior within which they may exercise creativity and independence.