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-> Pesach
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amother
Geranium
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 Wed, Apr 17 2024, 11:42 am
| amother Apple wrote: | I disagree. My good friend married into a family that goes to hotel and her parents are very understanding that she goes with her in-laws every year. It’s really not a crazy expectation.
If op couldn’t go for some reason and was hysterical that would be a different story. But here she has the option and is being pressured otherwise.
How Dysfunctional the situation is by the in-laws I think it’s not fair to compare to a hotel, the question is is it easier to just stay home. For us it is so we don’t go. |
Your last point is the main question… is it truly dysfunctional by her in laws or just compared to hotel accommodations?
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chestnut
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 11:44 am
| amother Apple wrote: | I disagree. My good friend married into a family that goes to hotel and her parents are very understanding that she goes with her in-laws every year. It’s really not a crazy expectation.
If op couldn’t go for some reason and was hysterical that would be a different story. But here she has the option and is being pressured otherwise.
How Dysfunctional the situation is by the in-laws I think it’s not fair to compare to a hotel, the question is is it easier to just stay home. For us it is so we don’t go. |
Just how dysfunctional is the in-laws situation?
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lakewood mom
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 11:56 am
We never got a clear answer of what exactly is expected of her- besides making her bed…
Also, how exactly did they put their foot down and force her to come?
OP- if you answer these questions, you’d really be giving us clarity in understanding your point of view. Because as it sounds- you seem upset that you’re not going to a hotel with your family and have to stay in “less than” accommodations, have to make your own breakfast and put linen on your bed. I’m not trying to downplay your feelings; I’m pointing out that it seems you’re upset that you’re missing out on the hotel program- where you’re surrounded by luxury and don’t have to help out at all. And that’s ok. But you wanted to drive your point home further- how bad the situation is there…but you left out two factors. Can you please elaborate?
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amother
Dandelion
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 12:36 pm
Op, I haven’t read every post, but I wanted to add my 2¢…
To me, you sound very spoiled and somewhat entitled. Before anyone says that another anonymous person is jealous, please hear me out.
First of all, Pesach is a family holiday. There is something about spending it with a family in a house and not in a hotel. My parents have more than one house, in more than one city, and we never went to a Pesach hotel. There is something really special about being in one of your houses and enjoying the work done to it. Yes, sometimes when we go to my parents the housekeeper hasn’t had time to make all the beds, but you know what? Nothing like shmoozing with a sister-in-law while trying to get a sheet on. Or staying up late with a nursing sister and peeling potatoes. And sitting at a table with all your family around and not having to be rushed according to someone else’s schedule? Amazing.
Op, please change your attitude. Let your in-laws have their well deserved nachas. And if you’re jealous of your family, maybe go to them on chol hamoed. I hear planes still fly on chol hamoed. The only downside is you can’t buy chometz in duty free and make sure food on the airplane is klp. (If you need tips, let me know!)
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amother
Apple
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 12:40 pm
| amother Dandelion wrote: | Op, I haven’t read every post, but I wanted to add my 2¢…
To me, you sound very spoiled and somewhat entitled. Before anyone says that another anonymous person is jealous, please hear me out.
First of all, Pesach is a family holiday. There is something about spending it with a family in a house and not in a hotel. My parents have more than one house, in more than one city, and we never went to a Pesach hotel. There is something really special about being in one of your houses and enjoying the work done to it. Yes, sometimes when we go to my parents the housekeeper hasn’t had time to make all the beds, but you know what? Nothing like shmoozing with a sister-in-law while trying to get a sheet on. Or staying up late with a nursing sister and peeling potatoes. And sitting at a table with all your family around and not having to be rushed according to someone else’s schedule? Amazing.
Op, please change your attitude. Let your in-laws have their well deserved nachas. And if you’re jealous of your family, maybe go to them on chol hamoed. I hear planes still fly on chol hamoed. The only downside is you can’t buy chometz in duty free and make sure food on the airplane is klp. (If you need tips, let me know!) |
You’re being extremely dismissive. I’m assuming space isn’t an issue in your parents home. And there’s a housekeeper. Op said there was no help and it was a small apartment.
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Cheiny
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 12:47 pm
| amother Dandelion wrote: | Op, I haven’t read every post, but I wanted to add my 2¢…
To me, you sound very spoiled and somewhat entitled. Before anyone says that another anonymous person is jealous, please hear me out.
First of all, Pesach is a family holiday. There is something about spending it with a family in a house and not in a hotel. My parents have more than one house, in more than one city, and we never went to a Pesach hotel. There is something really special about being in one of your houses and enjoying the work done to it. Yes, sometimes when we go to my parents the housekeeper hasn’t had time to make all the beds, but you know what? Nothing like shmoozing with a sister-in-law while trying to get a sheet on. Or staying up late with a nursing sister and peeling potatoes. And sitting at a table with all your family around and not having to be rushed according to someone else’s schedule? Amazing.
Op, please change your attitude. Let your in-laws have their well deserved nachas. And if you’re jealous of your family, maybe go to them on chol hamoed. I hear planes still fly on chol hamoed. The only downside is you can’t buy chometz in duty free and make sure food on the airplane is klp. (If you need tips, let me know!) |
WADR, your parents have multiple houses, and a housekeeper, so you can’t compare that situation to OP’s where they’ll all be crammed into a small apartment and she’ll be forced to do most of the work.
When your situation is like that, then you can tell her whether you still think she’s entitled…
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Cheiny
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 12:49 pm
| amother Holly wrote: | This thread is such an example of why moshiach isn't here and where the community has gone wrong.
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You mean because of the judgmentalism, I assume?
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Cheiny
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 12:53 pm
| B'Syata D'Shmya wrote: | | So I suspected this is a troll, the inferior grammer doesnt shtim with a girl raised in a wealthy home, the reference to eating lamb chops (as opposed to referring to resting at the pool or reading in the lounge) ...but who cares, do we really know if any of these scenarios are real? |
Proper grammar is not acquired through wealth, I can’t imagine where this idea comes from…
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Cheiny
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 12:54 pm
| amother Outerspace wrote: | I don’t think most MILs that expect things from kids are that self aware to think of their child’s perspective. Most MILs only think about themselves  |
I don’t think you can make a generalization like that.
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Cheiny
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 1:00 pm
| amother OP wrote: | It’s the OP again and I’m definitely going to take the mussar and work on myself and my entitlement. We can’t just split yuntif, it’s too impractical with flight costs to only come for half.
There was a comment about how I would feel if my son didn’t come to me for yuntif and if it was because he was going on a vacation I couldn’t give him, I truly believe I would be happy for him. I would feel guilty if they were squished at me and if they were by me I would do everything to make their experience comfortable like hiring a cleaner to make the beds and make bathroom clean.. I wouldn’t have them arrive to unmade beds and hand them a broom to start sweeping. I would cook plenty of dishes to make them feel treated and welcome. Hachnosis orchim I guess comes easier to me.
But apparently it’s normal to expect guests to work and clean so I guess when we get there I will make our beds and sweep and such. It’s just definitely culturally different than what I’m used to and how we treat guests. Which I guess is because I am a “spoiled brat” as some have pointed out.
But additionally for the people who said I should host pesach, the only reason why I am complaining is because we have a wonderful option to relax and renew and instead we were kinda forced into this. If I didn’t have any other options, I would be grateful to join this. It is more the disparity between the two and the lack of empathy and understanding about what we are giving up to be with them. Not once has my in laws said thank you to choose to spend yuntif with us, knowing the sacrifice we had to make.
Additionally for the people so convinced this is a troll post, I am deeply offended. Just because someone’s problems are different than your own doesn’t mean they aren’t valid to them. Now we are all hiding beneath a computer screen and with anonymity comes more rawness. But I do wish that for future posts, try not to ask if this is a troll post. It completely invalidates the other person and is unnecessary. If you want to add mussar, that is helpful. |
I totally get you and empathize. First, when you’re used to one way, adjusting to a new situation is hard in itself. Add to that, one situation allowed you to enjoy the YT in a nice way, with minimal work and in nice accommodations, vs, the other situation in which you’re in tight quarters and expected to do a lot of work. Your feelings are completely understandable and justified.
If you do go, and help with the work, and try to be gracious and put up a happy face, despite not getting a welcome or a thank you from your in laws, just keep in mind your s’char will be through the roof. Tell Hashem you’re doing this for Him as well, because it’s a big Mitzvah of kibbud av v’em, and I’m sure your dh will appreciate your sacrifice too. Hopefully your kids will honor you when you’re older as well…
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chestnut
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 1:34 pm
| Cheiny wrote: | WADR, your parents have multiple houses, and a housekeeper, so you can’t compare that situation to OP’s where they’ll all be crammed into a small apartment and she’ll be forced to do most of the work.
When your situation is like that, then you can tell her whether you still think she’s entitled… |
Hilarious how Dandelion is being shamed for her good response but so many feel bad for the OP with the minimal info she gave.
Do you know what the OP calls a small apartment? Do you know what "forced to do most work" entails?
Last edited by chestnut on Wed, Apr 17 2024, 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Dahlia
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 2:09 pm
| amother Apple wrote: | | You’re being extremely dismissive. I’m assuming space isn’t an issue in your parents home. And there’s a housekeeper. Op said there was no help and it was a small apartment. |
We have a small apartment & no help. I hope my kids will want to spend yom tov with us ih.
My in laws live in a small apartment as well, and the kids are happy to go & pitch in. Nothing OP mentioned so far, is out of the ordinary.
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amother
cornflower
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 2:17 pm
| amother Dandelion wrote: | Op, I haven’t read every post, but I wanted to add my 2¢…
To me, you sound very spoiled and somewhat entitled. Before anyone says that another anonymous person is jealous, please hear me out.
First of all, Pesach is a family holiday. There is something about spending it with a family in a house and not in a hotel. My parents have more than one house, in more than one city, and we never went to a Pesach hotel. There is something really special about being in one of your houses and enjoying the work done to it. Yes, sometimes when we go to my parents the housekeeper hasn’t had time to make all the beds, but you know what? Nothing like shmoozing with a sister-in-law while trying to get a sheet on. Or staying up late with a nursing sister and peeling potatoes. And sitting at a table with all your family around and not having to be rushed according to someone else’s schedule? Amazing.
Op, please change your attitude. Let your in-laws have their well deserved nachas. And if you’re jealous of your family, maybe go to them on chol hamoed. I hear planes still fly on chol hamoed. The only downside is you can’t buy chometz in duty free and make sure food on the airplane is klp. (If you need tips, let me know!) |
This bothers me.
Im not rich, and I cant afford a pesach hotel, nor do I feel the need to because I really LOVE making pesach in my own home. I love the cooking and the prep, and the sitting down, as you say, in my own home at my own dining room table, eating the foods I prepped...I really love it.
Having said that.
As a child and teen, we went to pesach hotels. My parents couldnt afford many extras, but they loved going to pesach programs so much that they didnt have a cleaning lady, my mother never got waxings or manicures and didnt use a shaitelmacher for her wigs. She never bought herself new clothes and 90% of the kids' clothes were hand me downs. They mowed their own lawns, shoveled their own snow, didnt take family vacations etc etc etc and they saved up their momey so every other year or so we would go to a pesach hotel.
I guess it depends which pesach program you go to, but in my own experience it was AMAZING! It was leibedik and achdusdik, and yes we were on "someone elses schedule" but even at home youre on a schedule thats dictated by shkiah, what time shul ends, etc. Youre always on a schedule. In the pesach hotel we relaxed, we ate good food; we unwound and had so much extra family bonding time that at home never happened. We had beautiful sedarim, and we did them at our own pace, basically ignoring the other familes as they did their own seders and focused on themselves. We had non stop shiurim and stimulation for bith parents and children, the kids were happy, our parents were totally non stressed and able to focus on us kids....
As someone who loves making her own pesach at home, im getting tired of hearing people knock pesach programs. Sure some of them may stink, but there are enough out there that really provide a beautiful, family-oriented, uplifting yomtov atmosphere.
And im going to assume that OP goes to one of those.
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amother
Steel
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 2:29 pm
| amother Raspberry wrote: | | If you don’t go than go to hotel if you go you need to participate. You can go out to eat on chol hamoed and but prepared food for yom tov. But while you are there you can’t just not participate. I wonder what do the other dil think about this situation |
Where can she go out to eat on chol hamoed?
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amother
Dandelion
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 3:12 pm
| amother Apple wrote: | | You’re being extremely dismissive. I’m assuming space isn’t an issue in your parents home. And there’s a housekeeper. Op said there was no help and it was a small apartment. |
How big is the apartment? It’s all relative. Some people can live in a machsan apartment with 7 children and it can feel very spacious. Some people, everyone has their own bedroom and bathroom and it still feels cramped.
If you go in with the thinking that it’s gonna be not good enough, guess what, it’ll be not good enough.
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amother
Dandelion
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 3:14 pm
| amother cornflower wrote: | This bothers me.
Im not rich, and I cant afford a pesach hotel, nor do I feel the need to because I really LOVE making pesach in my own home. I love the cooking and the prep, and the sitting down, as you say, in my own home at my own dining room table, eating the foods I prepped...I really love it.
Having said that.
As a child and teen, we went to pesach hotels. My parents couldnt afford many extras, but they loved going to pesach programs so much that they didnt have a cleaning lady, my mother never got waxings or manicures and didnt use a shaitelmacher for her wigs. She never bought herself new clothes and 90% of the kids' clothes were hand me downs. They mowed their own lawns, shoveled their own snow, didnt take family vacations etc etc etc and they saved up their momey so every other year or so we would go to a pesach hotel.
I guess it depends which pesach program you go to, but in my own experience it was AMAZING! It was leibedik and achdusdik, and yes we were on "someone elses schedule" but even at home youre on a schedule thats dictated by shkiah, what time shul ends, etc. Youre always on a schedule. In the pesach hotel we relaxed, we ate good food; we unwound and had so much extra family bonding time that at home never happened. We had beautiful sedarim, and we did them at our own pace, basically ignoring the other familes as they did their own seders and focused on themselves. We had non stop shiurim and stimulation for bith parents and children, the kids were happy, our parents were totally non stressed and able to focus on us kids....
As someone who loves making her own pesach at home, im getting tired of hearing people knock pesach programs. Sure some of them may stink, but there are enough out there that really provide a beautiful, family-oriented, uplifting yomtov atmosphere.
And im going to assume that OP goes to one of those. |
I’m not knocking Pesach programs.
I personally feel that there’s no place like home. Pesach programs definitely serve a purpose and people enjoy them, otherwise they wouldn’t exist.
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amother
Dandelion
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 3:21 pm
| Cheiny wrote: | WADR, your parents have multiple houses, and a housekeeper, so you can’t compare that situation to OP’s where they’ll all be crammed into a small apartment and she’ll be forced to do most of the work.
When your situation is like that, then you can tell her whether you still think she’s entitled… |
Again, do you know how big her in-laws apartment is? For all you know it’s a two story penthouse.
Forced to do most of the work? Is peeling potatoes and making a bed so hard? At least she won’t have to do laundry on chol hamoed! Oh my goodness! Make a WHOLE ENTIRE BED!! Wow.
Guess what, when I go to my parents and I laws, I offer to help. And I do help. Even if the housekeeper is there. And I enjoy it. Sometimes I shmooze with the housekeeper and many times it’s a bunch of us doing things in the kitchen and it’s so much fun.
Op, breakfast isn’t a big deal. There’s always matzah haha. And yogurt and things like that. Maybe talk to your mother-in-law and ask her what she’ll have and you can ask her to get certain things you want. Just like you don’t know what to expect she doesn’t either. Communicate.
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notshanarishona
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 3:27 pm
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Yes it is painful if the other side can offer a much more exciting yom tov but I would hope that parents who truly want whatever is best for their kids would understand why most people would rather a luxurious vacation than a bare bones yom tov. It’s only natural. That doesn’t mean it’s not painful, but I think in-laws should be mevater and let the couple (who are adults obviously) decide what’s best for them.
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amother
Honeysuckle
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 3:33 pm
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Op I didn’t read the whole thread, just want you to know that I completely understand you. Yes you came across sounding bratty and spoiled but if I grew up always going to hotels and now suddenly that was taken away from me I would also be very disappointed. I think for the future you should keep a calendar and take turns with the holidays. Like you can go to your in-laws for shavous if you went with parents for pesach… etc.
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B'Syata D'Shmya
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Wed, Apr 17 2024, 3:43 pm
| amother OP wrote: | It’s the OP again and I’m definitely going to take the mussar and work on myself and my entitlement. We can’t just split yuntif, it’s too impractical with flight costs to only come for half.
There was a comment about how I would feel if my son didn’t come to me for yuntif and if it was because he was going on a vacation I couldn’t give him, I truly believe I would be happy for him. I would feel guilty if they were squished at me and if they were by me I would do everything to make their experience comfortable like hiring a cleaner to make the beds and make bathroom clean.. I wouldn’t have them arrive to unmade beds and hand them a broom to start sweeping. I would cook plenty of dishes to make them feel treated and welcome. Hachnosis orchim I guess comes easier to me.
But apparently it’s normal to expect guests to work and clean so I guess when we get there I will make our beds and sweep and such. It’s just definitely culturally different than what I’m used to and how we treat guests. Which I guess is because I am a “spoiled brat” as some have pointed out.
But additionally for the people who said I should host pesach, the only reason why I am complaining is because we have a wonderful option to relax and renew and instead we were kinda forced into this. If I didn’t have any other options, I would be grateful to join this. It is more the disparity between the two and the lack of empathy and understanding about what we are giving up to be with them. Not once has my in laws said thank you to choose to spend yuntif with us, knowing the sacrifice we had to make.
Additionally for the people so convinced this is a troll post, I am deeply offended. Just because someone’s problems are different than your own doesn’t mean they aren’t valid to them. Now we are all hiding beneath a computer screen and with anonymity comes more rawness. But I do wish that for future posts, try not to ask if this is a troll post. It completely invalidates the other person and is unnecessary. If you want to add mussar, that is helpful. |
Noone is convinced you are a troll, relax.
I understand your grieving the loss of the vacation that will leave you refreshed after Yuntif, As someone who has made BH Yuntif most of my life, either for my parents, my in laws or my family (We never went away), I know I collapse after Yuntif, literally, cant... get... out ..of... bed...
So yes, I made a homey and warm Yuntif, I smile and hug, accept the compliments, feel good about the accomplishments, and thank Hashem from the bottom of my heart. But it does take its toll, I am certainly refreshed in nachas and in spirit, but not in body.
But Im not you. Hashem made us all different and we arent meant to compare. You are certainly NOT a spoiled brat. You had opportunities and made the most of them. OP, I appreciate the sacrifice you are making, and if your in laws havent expressed their appreciation, please know - somewhere I am applauding you.
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