Necessity or Luxury?

imaima

Sun, Jan 25 2015, 11:34 pm

Ok. So considering a couch anything but a necessity is foreign to me. If you have space for one, you should get one!

Paper goods are not a necessity for me because I have a dishwasher, neither are they a luxury. I cannot call luxury something flimsy that makes your food unappetizing. Paper, regardless of how beautiful, is not an equal replacement of china for me. It's just a way out... And I hate how much trash they produce that someone has to take out.

Cleaning help is either luxury of necessity, depending on circumstances.

etky

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:18 am

imaima wrote:

ITA on all three counts.
Regarding a couch - rather than a strict necessity (b/c you can defintiely live w/o one) I would call it part of the standard furnishings that one expects to have in a home. It is a one time expense and can be purchased cheaply second hand if need be. It adds immeasurably to the physical comfort of the home.
Paper goods and cleaning help are running expenses - conveniences that one can do w/o if need be, depending on circumstances, by expending effort.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:30 am

I never thought of a couch as a luxury but we could manage without one. we could also manage without cleaning help. it makes my life easier but not a requirement.
but for my family paper goods are not a luxury at all as my husband just doesnt do dishes and I refuse to be cleaning the dishes all of the time. so plastic wear it is. for our shalom bayit.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:56 am

Before I made Aliyah I would have considered all three necessities. I made Aliyah. There is no room in my apartment for my big american sofas so we sold them and haven't replaced them. So far we are managing fine without a couch. Disposables are expensive so I wash a lot more dishes. The only thing we still have is a cleaning lady to do the floors and the bathrooms once a week otherwise they would never get cleaned.

greenfire

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 4:09 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Agreed.

Necessities are things like a roof over your head, food, heat, electricity, and running water.

right ~ as the most basic of necessities

FranticFrummie wrote:

A comfy bed is even a luxury for me. I remember a time when I had an apartment with no furniture. My bed was all of my clothes laid out on the floor, and I slept on top of them, with my coat for a blanket. When I had to get dressed for work, I tore up my bed to see what was the least wrinkled.

Good times - NOT!

the little things most take for granted

that must have been difficult Hug

the world's best mom

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 4:10 am

None of them are necessities.

My sisters-in-law used to babysit in Williamsburg and after each new job, everyone would ask, "So, did they have a couch?" The "good" families to babysit for had couches.

To me it is really odd not to have a couch, but apparently many people don't have one.

I use paper goods, because they allow me the luxury of not spending my day washing dishes. Definitely not a necessity.

I have a little bit of cleaning help because it allows me the luxury of watching my apartment get cleaned while I am putting my kids to bed and doing laundry. I could see how cleaning help could become a necessity in certain situations though.

I think that anyone who is calling these things a necessity doesn't know the meaning of the word necessity.

Raisin

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 4:25 am

Couch is a necessity. Unless you don't have actual space they can often be got free or cheaply second hand in todays throwaway society.

Paper goods are a necessity when entertaining, or for shabbos or yomtov, otherwise I manage without them since I have a dishwasher.

Cleaning help (at least a minimal amount) is important to me but I guess I could manage without it if I had to.

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:15 am

Cleaning help is more necessary to me than either disposable dishes or a couch. I hate housework, whereas I grew up with a mother who rewashed disposable cutlery and plastic plates and we didn't own a couch till I was 12. OTOH, my mother had cleaning help till her daughters were old enough to help with heavy cleaning.

imaima

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:21 am

amother wrote:

Wow. It feels like from a different planet.
Did your mother pay household help to wash disposable dishes?

etky

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:30 am

I'm puzzled by those who report that they do not or at one time did not own a couch. What furnishings do you own other than what I think must be truly universal neccesities - beds to sleep in and a table and chairs to eat on? If your home is large enough to accomodate a couch and you have a designated family living space, what furnishings have you prioritized above a couch and why? Are the reasons that you don't have a couch aesthetic, comfort -related, financial or something else?

Tablepoetry

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:40 am

etky wrote:

I find this fascinating as well.
About 15 years ago, we were invited for Shabbat to a very, very charedi home. I think they had about 9 kids. They lived a totally different lifestyle than I am used to. Anyway, I was shocked to discover they had absolutely no couch. Nowhere to sit comfortably!
I had toddlers and a baby and I remember it was one of the most uncomfortable shabbatot I have ever experienced. I had to sit on those small keter plastic chairs all day long, unless I wanted to climb the stairs and sit on a mattress in the bedroom we had been given. It's pretty hard to hold a baby and a toddler on a little plastic chair for hours on end.

I understood though that the lack of a couch was not due mainly to a lack of money. It was because a couch was a symbol of empty schmoozing. You don't learn on a couch, you don't do anything useful on a couch.

Afterwards I saw quite a few couchless houses. The dining room table is usually huge, and that takes center stage. No couch.

I did learn that you have to get to know people a bit better before blindly accepting an invitation for a whole shabbat...

Last edited by Tablepoetry on Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:43 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:41 am

imaima wrote:

Wow. It feels like from a different planet.
Did your mother pay household help to wash disposable dishes?

No. I wrote that my mother washed the disposable dishes (and cups). The cleaning lady did heavy cleaning, which in my book doesn't involve washing dishes.

My mother hated/s disposable dishes. She feels they are very environmentally unfriendly, besides being not as nice as real dishes.

oliveoil

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:52 am

Tablepoetry wrote:

This is interesting. In my experience it's been more of a financial thing. Never heard of that idea. So foreign to me, but I can definitely see people subscribing to that. Interesting.

Ruchel

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 6:25 am

amother wrote:

paper goods- luxury.

cleaning help- necessity

couch- luxury

Interesting to see everyone's opinions on this Very Happy

Yup, I would do better with no paper goods and even no couch (armchairs ok, right?) than no cleaning help.

You can get a cheapy couch, cloth material, second hand... many still don't use paper goodss (more and more do esp younger generation). I've lived with neither paper goods nor dishwasher, ouat. BH I finally found cleaning help then after months.

Barbara

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 7:45 am

I am sickened by the display of privilege here.

People "couldn't survive" if they had to clean their own toilets?

There are people in this world -- people in the countries where we live (the US, Canada, Israel, various European countries) who don't have enough to eat. We're heading into a blizzard where I live, and there are far too many people who don't have a home. Or even if they have a place to live, they don't have heat, and their windows don't keep out the cold.

There are people in this world who don't have shelter, or clean water to drink, or enough food to eat. There are people who die of starvation.

But you think that you would just perish is you had to clean a toilet, or wash a floor. It's a "necessity" to have cleaning help. Or to be able to throw away your dishes instead of washing them.

Sure, its wonderful to have cleaning help. I'm grateful that I can afford it.

But could I live without it? Of course. We all could.