Where would we fit in?

mama g

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:32 am

Hi Ladies, I'm new to the forums, but I need some help... Our family is making aliyah this summer, b"H, but choosing a community/schools is so incredibly overwhelming!

We are from a very open and accepting "out of town" community, and I have never been in a "real" community in my life, let alone Israel. My husband has been there once. We both converted, along with our three oldest children, about 5 years ago. The youngest three kids were born Jewish. So that's why I am clueless. I will try to describe to you what we are like, so you can tell us what type of place we'd fit in? I will be ever so appreciative!

My husband -- wears black suit and white shirt all week long. Black hat for davening and Shabbos. He wants to learn in an Anglo-friendly BT yeshiva for a few years before re-entering the work force. (Although it would be so nice if he could sometimes wear a coloured shirt, even if just in the house... He looks so much better with a little colour. Not that he cares though, lol. He loves the black and white.)

Me -- wears long skirts, thick tights, tichel. I like to wear colours though (not bold and showy, but I hate black. Just a personal preference I've had since childhood). I need open spaces around me; cities make me claustrophobic and stressed out. I would definitely prefer to have a single-family dwelling UNLESS the apartments in Israel are much more soundproof than here...

Kids -- ds10 loves wearing collared polo shirts with dress pants, so he isn't a concern -- except, he doesn't do well in crowded areas or large class sizes. ds7 is a casual, easy-going kind of guy. He lives in sweatpants and t-shirts and only will willingly dress up for Shabbos. Not sure if this is acceptable behaviour for Hareidi communities? dd5, will be fine anywhere I think. ds4, will NOT wear dressy clothing (our dr wants him assessed for autism, to put this in perspective). He put on a dress shirt for Shabbos for the first time just a few months ago, and has rarely agreed to put (or keep) one on since. He's young though, so this is fine? Twin dd2, are young enough to integrate anywhere.

The boys like playing soccer and biking, etc -- someone said this may be frowned upon? I'm hoping that would only be in very stringent communities? The kids also really want a dog, but I don't think that would go over well, correct? If there is some haredi community where families can have pets, I would love to know about it though! I love dogs, and always had one as a child. I understand we may have to give up this desire though.

Our primary concern for our future community is the chinuch of our children. We'd like schools that don't allow tv, and only filtered internet. A school that either has an existing framework for anglo olim, or is caring and small enough to be able to give enough personal attention to the kids while they adjust. They do speak some Hebrew, and can read almost fluently. Our oldest some learns with a rebbe from NY, so he will hopefully not be too far behind other children his age.

I don't know our hashkafa... Zionist, not-Zionist... it never really mattered enough for me to form an opinion (until a couple years ago, I thought *all* Jews were Zionist, lol), but now it seems that our entire future life-course depends on it... Are there any good resources that I can read, to figure out where we stand, or better yet, an online questionnaire, haha?

So, with the extremely limited information I have, here is a list of the communities, in no particular order, that we think we may be interested in (please don't laugh at me, I really have no way of knowing what these places are like, and the schools are next to impossible to find out about):
Karmiel, Hispin, Hadera, Migdal HaEmek, Rechasim, Yavne'el, Ganei Modiin, Yad Binyamin, Karnei Shomron, Maalot. (For those who live in the north or "across the line", how safe do you feel? Do you get nervous around so many Arab villages? Any specific things I should know?) I am very open to new suggestions also, especially if you have contact info for someone who lives there.

Anyway, thank you for bearing with me, and if I left any important info out, just ask! Thank you so very much!

hila

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 12:50 am

Welcome. Looking forward to having you here. A lot will depend on where you will work (or can you work anywhere?) and how much you can afford.

I live in Efrat - and you are welcome to come visit - but we may be too open a community for you. All are accepted and we manage to live together pretty well. Most are Dati Leumi.

I am sure some others will chime in about the other communities you mention. The further from Bnei Brak and Jerusalem, the more likely they will accept dogs and bikes.

I do suggest renting at first so you can move if needed. However make sure you have good schools before settling on a town.

I strongly suggest moving to a town where you will have support - good friends and/ or family, but I guess you wont have too much family here.

If you decide on Gush Etsion - I am happy to adopt you . Smile

I would also suggest that you arrange a pilot trip for at least one of you to check the places you are considering.

Hatslacha.

finallyamommy

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 2:25 am

Hello! I am also a giyores. Please, please check out Shapell's in Yerushalayim for your husband to learn at - it is an absolutely wonderful yeshiva with a lovely community and we have both made lifelong friends. If you can afford to take time off to learn as well, I went to the sister seminary Midreshet Rachel and also highly recommend it. The really nice thing about Shapell's/Midreshet Rachel is that it doesn't push any sort of hashkafah, and people are free to learn and grow at their own pace. You don't have to live in Yerushalayim to learn there, though - people commute from RBS (which is very Anglo, probably good for you if your kids are older), but within Yerushalayim I'd say check out Har Nof. PM me if you want any more information. :-) Hatzlacha!

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 4:55 am

I just want to point out that wearing black and white and a hat means different things in the US and Israel. In Israel the dress code often goes with a very insular life style - eg, not so friendly to gerim and baalei teshuva, no secular studies for boys etc. That's not universal, but do keep your eyes open.
Good luck!

choco1

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:12 am

I think your best bet is RBS (Ramat Beit Shemesh) there is a nice mix there and people are very nice and caring and open minded . (We personally don't live there but some relatives who do) Based on your description it sounds appropriate for your family. They have constant busses to Jerusalem. I would suggest you speak with someone who lives there (RBS) to figure out which area is best for you to check out. Good luck with this and everything!

amother

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:18 am

I second ramat beit shemesh aleph. There is a wide range of schools to choose from. Many Anglo Olim so there are lots of people who have done it before and can help you. The schools are used to dealing with Olim. There is shopping and buses and it's very walkable. There are lots of ballai tshuva and gerrim. It's a very soft place to land and you can alwayslve somewhere else once you get a feel for what you need.

finallyamommy

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:21 am

amother wrote:

DH and I have never run into exclusion. If anything, when people find out that we didn't grow up frum, and especially when I'm a giyores, they go out of their way to include us.

Iymnok

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 5:31 am

There are a few yeshivos for bt's and others with a weaker background. My DH went to Ohr Somayach. There is a large range of ages there, not just college aged. Many married with kids. Pm me for details, I can also tell you about our community. (Outside Jerusalem, but close)

imaima

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 6:36 am

esheschayil wrote:

DH and I have never run into exclusion. If anything, when people find out that we didn't grow up frum, and especially when I'm a giyores, they go out of their way to include us.

That's because the community was OOT.

finallyamommy

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 8:19 am

imaima wrote:

That's because the community was OOT.

Huh? We've lived in several communities. DH currently learns at Torah Ore and is welcomed there. When we lived in Har Nof DH was at the Gra and had a kesher with Rav Sternbuch. We're on our third apartment/neighborhood since we've been married, all in Chareidi areas, and, I repeat, never ran into exclusion.

imaima

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:41 am

imaima wrote:

That's because the community was OOT.

Sorry I thought I was replying to the OP.

I don't say someone will actively shun you. But there definitely are communities where geirim and BTs treated differently (and sefardim, and other types too)

finallyamommy

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:53 am

I just reread the OP - sorry, apparently I completely missed the list of communities you're already interested in! I think Yad Binyamin is great, don't know much about the others.

mama g

Mon, Jan 26 2015, 11:40 pm

Thank you for all the responses! I will do some more research, and maybe PM a couple people when I have more time available. I really appreciate the input Smile

mama g

Tue, Jan 27 2015, 2:57 pm

Okay, quick question. I'm finding it hard to understand the differences between Israel and America. What does Haredi mean in Israel? Ie. when I search for communities on NBN, should I select "haredi" or "chardal" or "dati leumi"?

finallyamommy

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 1:06 pm

mama g wrote:

I see that nobody has answered this. I'm not really qualified, myself, but I'll try. As far as I know, it's basically political. If you don't believe in Israel as a State before the coming of Moshiach then you're "haredi" and if you believe that the State is "reishit tzmichat geulateinu" then you're dati leumi, and chardal is somewhere in the middle (it literally means "chareidi dati leumi, as far as I know), but I don't know much about it.

jackiejoel3

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 1:34 pm

Feel free to PM if you have any questions. I would suggest renting in a "mixed" frum area so you can figure out where you guys fit in. In yerushalyim Har Nof is a great option. If your DH is going to be learning for a year or 2 I would suggest living close to yerushalyim for the simple fact that the learning day is long and adding an hour commute on each way virtually ensures he will never see your smaller kids during the week. From what you describe in your OP Har Nof (particularly the bottom) sounds like it could be a great "landing spot" for you. Plus the benefit of having all 3 charedi, chardal, and a dati Leumi community in 1 neighborhood is nice so you can figure out where you want to go. No houses though unless you are a millionaire LOL

Jewishmom8

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 1:48 pm

esheschayil wrote:

I just wanted to clarify as I am charedi in israel
basicly what you said is more about satmar than chareidim in terms of the state and moshiach.
most stereotypical charedim are not zionists in terms of the state of israel but the love or eretz yisroel and kedushas eretz yisroel is fierce. its just a really intense culture when it comes to frumkiet learning torah/kollel and politics. chardal is a mix of both. dati liumi is frum zionist and very supportive of going to the army. I am someone who feels that there is good to be had in every community. you just need to find where you feel comfy.
and in rbs you will really find a mix of everything so I think its a good choice for you. but spend some time really researching.
Good luck!!

ice coffee

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 3:32 pm

What about moshav matisyahu?

finallyamommy

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 4:08 pm

Jewishmom8 wrote:

Thanks. In my experience most chareidim are more interested in "Eretz Yisrael" than "Medinat Yisrael" is what I was trying to say, but I totally agree that in terms of anti-zionism Satmar is the most intense.

amother

Thu, Feb 05 2015, 4:31 pm

mama g wrote:

Esheschayil is right, but I think there is more to it.

Charedi = no tv, no secular influences, higher education is generally not done (although now they have all these charedi institutes, so it's starting to change a little), learning in kollel long-term

Chardal = somewhere in between. Army could be ok, but in the charedi unit.

Dati leumi = more on the modern side. HOWEVER, there are some very strong dati leumi so I don't want to make this into a frum/not frum issue by any means. I live in a community that is a mix of charedi and dati leumi (we live on the border and identify as charedi) and so I have exposure to both. But in general, dati leumi is more zionistic, and advocates for higher education. May or may not have exposure to secular books/tv/music/etc, that depends on the family and level.