Dh wants me to stop shaving

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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

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suremom

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 9:46 am

freedomseek wrote:

No one in Poland ever shaved!

The only written evidence of this minhag is from vaad arbeh haarotzos stating that women should shave their hair as there was a question of chatzitza for Mikva .(lice)
There is a Zohar about hair grown during nidda has a tumah but this was just cited after the minhag was implemented. Not the reason.
This whole minhag is about two centuries old.....
Good luck op, I'm contemplating the same thing.
Social pressure is a big issue!

it originates from vaad arbeh haarotzos who made this takana (which btw was before chassidus so its more than 2 centurys old...) part of the reason why they did it was if 2 hairs are knoted its a chatziza and the tevilah is no good. Women had shaved before then they just made takana that everyone must. Plus, hair has a lot to do with kabbalah as written in zo'ar. (read this part in r falk's book oiz vhadar lvisha.)
this minhag has deep mesora as well as reasons. Wishing you much luck with your decision :-)

Chloe

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 9:47 am

First of all, Satmar Williamsburg Mikvah toivels anyone, whether you live there or not, wether you have hair or not. I toiveled there with my hair before I moved out and they never seemed to have an issue with it.

Secondly, whoever mentioned that if a strand of hair floating in the mikvah gets entangled to someone it renders their tevilla as not kosher. That is not true!!!

Thirdly, the mesorah of Sholom Bayis is way older than the Mesorah of shaving. I'd say by a few thousand years. The Torah itself mentions that a woman should be shaved to render her ugly (where a soldier is at war and lusts after a woman). The mirrors with which the women beautified themselves for their husbands in Mitzrayim was used for the Kiyor in Bais Hamikdosh!! And it that Zechus we were redeemed from Mitzrayim (Ye, I know we all learned it was only due to Shem, Loshon, Malbush I.e. Tznius and speaking Yiddish)

And four, Know that you will ALWAYS feel guilty about things you give up because of "mesorah". That has been the way we were raised, to do things out of fear and guilt.
Although it has subsided for me, it will never totally go away. But I am OK with that, I tell myself that it's OK to feel guilty, based on where I come from.

Oh and Fifth, I assume some of my family members don't know. I've told the openminded ones, but not the others. I wear a shaitel in their presence. However, if they do find out, I am strong enough at this point to tell them that this is what my husband and I want and closed subject. (I doubt they would mention anything anyway) And you got a heter I didn't, so it makes your argument even stronger. (BTW, my husband dresses in full Chassidish garb, so I am the one that would be getting the flak)

One more, I promise lol....sixth.....There is no Chinuch that's stronger than a mother being happy, feeling happy serving Hashem, and where there is Sholom Bayis and strength and happiness in a marriage. Your children will not be affected by whether you "drop" certain things. But they will be affected if they see that the mother or father feel restricted, unhappy and forced to serve Hashem in certain ways. And children pick up things that we never imagine they would.
We haven't dropped any Halachos, just the opposite, we have made certain things stronger....especially Ivdu Es Hashem B'Simcha.

I wish you a Gmar Chasimah Tovah, clarity and happiness

amother

Papaya

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 9:59 am

Chloe wrote:

Secondly, whoever mentioned that if a strand of hair floating in the mikvah gets entangled to someone it renders their tevilla as not kosher. That is not true!!!

You are right. The tevillah is kosher.

I will rephrase;

It is paskened by most poskim that one should re-toival (one tevilla) if she found hair entangled on herself.

BTW, usually the hairs floating on the water won't stick to the body. At times a hair may entangle around the fingers and that is when an extra tevilla is required.

Peanut2

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 10:08 am

Just to fix up some inaccuracies and misconceptions:

Lechatchila we all try to remove everything and not have even two strands of hair knotted. But a real chatzitza d"Oraita is so more than that. A woman who accidentally toiveled with a wedding ring or nail polish and went home would be fine (ask you own rav, etc.) Sometimes frum people get so focused on a geder of a geder of a d'Rabanan that they forget the core of Judaism.

I will only say this: Hashem forgives us for sins against Him but not for sins against other people. Shaving hair is not a mitzvah. I get that it's a minhag in some places, but shalom bayis is a mitzvah. Not speaking lashon hara about other people is a mitzvah. Focus on the mitzvahs.

Do you want to shave your hair?

I am also curious to find out the source. Yeah there is stuff in kabbalah but kabbalah is weird and Jews whose halachic system is very kabbalah-based (like some Mizrachi Jews - not all!) don't have the women shaving the hair on their head.

gp2.0

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 10:11 am

Iymnok wrote:

Now consider the swimming pool that no one did chafifa before entering- even showering is doubtful.

Tell me about it! All that sweat, grime and body oil floating around. The absolute worst is a jacuzzi in a hotel. Touted as a luxury, there is no way those are cleaned as well as they should be. I avoid them at all costs.

gp2.0

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 10:18 am

freedomseek wrote:

This is the best one so far. Lice.

This is why thousands of young women are humiliated. Because their great great great great great great grandparents had lice.

freedomseek

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 10:24 am

gp2.0 wrote:

This is the best one so far. Lice.

This is why thousands of young women are humiliated. Because their great great great great great great grandparents had lice.

Like it or not- that's the reason . It was relevant at that time and not relevant anymore.
Many (chassidishe) people go by custom not necessarily its reasoning.
I , too believe that in this case its ramifications are just too much...
But then again, social pressures are not easy... To each their own!

amother

Aubergine

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 10:48 am

Chloe wrote:

Beautifully written.

amother

Lawngreen

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 10:59 am

Maya wrote:

The "idea" that our children will become g*yim because we give up "mesorahs" such as these is a myth made up by Chassidish leadership to scare the masses into obedience, and to give them a right to control their adult children. It's absolutely not true. It's childish to continue thinking like that as a grown woman.

Maya, would you stop being so antagonistic?

dancingqueen

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 11:08 am

If your dh wants you to shave and you want to shave and you even got a heter - go for it! My honest assumption is that your female relatives are just jealous but you have to live your life.

asmileaday

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 11:12 am

Carmen Luna wrote:

LOL. So from that story that happened within the last 3 decades at most, you found that to be the reason behind this holy mesorah. You amuse me, please do continue.

Nope "I" have not found this to be the reason at all. A respected speaker related the story as proof to how important it is to keep mesorah. And it follows the same vein of reasoning that women shaved to protect themselves.
I'm glad to have amused you, you can thank the speaker.

Chloe

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 11:16 am

amother wrote:

Maya, would you stop being so antagonistic?

I find it more antagonistic when people say "She dropped this or that (minhag), G-d knows what her children will look like, and her grandkids....forget it, they'll be assimilated.

asmileaday

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 11:22 am

Chloe wrote:

I find it more antagonistic when people say "She dropped this or that (minhag), G-d knows what her children will look like, and her grandkids....forget it, they'll be assimilated.

Agree 100%

Maya

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 11:30 am

I think the OP is already able to see for herself that she is not breaking some iron clad halacha by accepting the heter to stop shaving, and that the mesorah is, as I said on page one, shaky at best.

amother

Bisque

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 11:47 am

asmileaday wrote:

And yet for some reason this is what we were told over and over in school and anywhere else What

I clearly remember being in camp and the shabbos speaker told this story: A woman was walking down the street late at night, her jewelry in clear sight (don't remember if it was Friday night or coming from a wedding). A thug attacked her and tried to grab her jewelry and knocked he down. Her wig fell off and the thug yells "undercover cop!" and runs away. (Her shaved head was exposed.) What a miracle. The power of mesorah. Again What

And in my town a frum Sheitel wearing lady was an innocent bystander in a bank robbery and when the perp pulled her Sheitel off by mistake he freaked out and ran away. ANd SHE HAd A Full head of HAIR underneath.

Carmen Luna

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 12:00 pm

watergirl wrote:

Can you please tell me why so many of your posts have such a nasty tone? On this whole board in general - you come across as aggressive. Regardless if you agree or disagree, you are a new poster here. Why not take it easy and chill out a bit?

1) There are plenty of "aggressive" (opinionated) amothers here, who arent afraid to voice their opinions. So, I think it hasmore to do with the fact that you dont share my mindset and views on certain matters. I get it.
2) What a ridiculous thing to say, I'm a "newbie" so I need to sit in the corner while the big girls play?? Please tell me, when is it, that I'm allowed to join?
The reason I dont take your comment to heart is because I realize your just as sarcastic as everyone else, who are you to tell someone who's new to shut up

Carmen Luna

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 12:02 pm

And if you need proof, If it would be my "negative" tone, you would have a problem with posters like Maya etc.. but obviously you dont because you share their viewpoint. See how biased you are?

amother

Bisque

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 12:03 pm

Serious question here: If it's because of chatziza in Mikvah why don't they have to shave legs and armpits? Some of that armpit hair is pretty long and bushy.

Maya

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 12:06 pm

Carmen Luna wrote:

And if you need proof, If it would be my "negative" tone, you would have a problem with posters like Maya etc.. but obviously you dont because you share their viewpoint. See how biased you are?

The one thing I have never come off as is holier than thou, which is what your posts reek of. And that smugness. Nobody likes that.

amother

Lime

Fri, Sep 25 2015, 3:17 pm

For those of you who believe that shaving a women head never originated with pogroms and rape you are sadly very wrong. I have discussed this topic with several experts in Jewish history and they have confirmed this. I'll see if I can find any of the articles they wrote.

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