When I asked for Shabbos hospitality, told "stay in hot

HindaRochel

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 2:57 pm

Inspired wrote:

You need a source to say you shouldn't put others in uncomfortable positions?
For me its veahvta lirayacha kamocha. I try not to do to others what I wouldn't want done to me.

What uncomfortable position?

Someone called me "we hear you're a great place to have a meal. Can you take two seminary girls..."
"Oh I'm sorry, not this Shabbat, we had company last Shabbat and can't do it this week. But do keep us in mind"
"Okay! We will. Thanks. Bye..."

Not uncomfortable.

Inspired

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 2:59 pm

aidelmaidel wrote:

INSPIRED - forgive me for being the devil's advocate here... Wink

Here's a hypothetical question for you:

If everyone STAYED HOME and made Shabbos every single week, who would be our guests? How could we fulfill the mitzvah if everyone stayed home? Scratching Head

All the people who

get stranded

have a family member in the hospital in your town

have a family simcha in your town

are new baalei teshuva or gerim and need connections to already frum families

are orphans or bts or gerim and have a baby and have a shabbos bris/ shalom zachor

are single and lonely

just moved from another country, or another community

have a crises and can't make shabbos
such as:
a fire in their house
a kid or spouse in the hospital all week
a war happens and missles are falling in their town, maybe their house gets hit
their spouse is abusive and they had to leave

The list goes on and on.

I don't even see the question as being valid.

Inspired

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 3:00 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

Inspired wrote:

You need a source to say you shouldn't put others in uncomfortable positions?
For me its veahvta lirayacha kamocha. I try not to do to others what I wouldn't want done to me.

Are you the rabbi of a shul or some other community askan?

aidelmaidel

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 3:23 pm

Inspired wrote:

are new baalei teshuva or gerim and need connections to already frum families

Even us "old" BTs (and geirim) continue to need connections to already frum families - it's not just "new" to yiddishkeit that need chizuk. (I had 26 years of non-frum life, I figure I need at least 26 years of chizuk to get that life fully out of my head).

And I'm not dismissing your list - there are lots of reasons *why* people NEED hosting. But Hashem also wanted us to be sociable people and not to always be chained to just our houses.

And girlfriend, anytime you're in Brooklyn, we would love to have y'all. And not just because of one of your listed reasons. Just STAM.

Here's another question for you. Our friends are going to have their second baby soon. The wife called and asked if she could come to us for shabbos because it's getting hard for her between work, home, and 3 year old and she recognizes once she has the baby she will be trapped at home for the next 2 years. Should I have said no because she is perfectly capable of making shabbos herself?

HindaRochel

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 3:36 pm

Inspired wrote:

HindaRochel wrote:

Inspired wrote:

You need a source to say you shouldn't put others in uncomfortable positions?
For me its veahvta lirayacha kamocha. I try not to do to others what I wouldn't want done to me.

Are you the rabbi of a shul or some other community askan?

I'm really trying to understand.

You know I'm not a Rabbi. But I have received calls, from various people, asking various favors, some directly and some not.

I can I say yes, I can't I say no.

I do expect that those who are Rabbi's, those who work as Rabbi's in any capacity should, I would think, accept some responsibility to the community as a whole, and that would include any Jew who came into the community area. While I would not necessarily expect that the Rabbi would himself (or for that matter the Rabbi's wife) make calls to find me whatever, I would have a certain expectation of knowledge on his (or her) part as to where I could find shelter, which restaurants were kosher etc etc. The knowledge might mean directing me to a Hachnosat Orchim committee or letting me know which Shul was closest to what hotel and where I could get kosher food or whatever.

de_goldy

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 3:43 pm

Just want to say that it's very different when you're talking regular people in a community - even a small one - who get a call once in a while, or people/rabbis/shluchim who live in or near a popular tourist destination and get multiple calls per week asking for hospitality from tourists/vacationers.

I have worked in a Shliach's office, in a popular tourist area, and the amount of calls per week asking and expecting to be hosted was unbelievable. And when politely told where the closest hotels etc are, people often INSIST that they must be put up. Some people are incredibly rude and demanding. Just the sheer number of calls coming in make it hard for the rabbi/secretary/whoever to give you a personally tailored response.

aidelmaidel

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 3:59 pm

Look I will tell you two stories.

First was several years ago. A friend related it first hand (forgive me if I changed some details to keep the Chabad House anonymous). She was not lubavitch but was davening at the local chabad house (it was closest to her parents' house). Apparently a gentleman who was "visiting" asked to use the mikvah erev shabbos (and on shabbos morning) and was given the code for the door.

At some point on Shabbos morning this gentleman set fire to some siddurim and caused some mayhem in the mikvah. After the fire department came to put on the fire and the police showed up, and services finished. A lubavitcher in the shul walked up to this clearly mentally ill gentleman and asked him if he had a lawyer, did he need help getting one, and did he have a place to eat the shabbos meal? And he took him home to his house for the meal.

My friend was astounded and was so impressed by the ahavas yisroel and hachnasos orchim of chossid.

Second story
I don't remember how long ago it was, I just remember reading the article online. (I looked for it and couldn't find it). A community member was asked to host a guest for either a shabbaton or yomtov. After shabbos/yomtov/sunday was over, the hostess innocently asked, "I'm just checking in when are you staying until so I can prepare the room the next guest?" She was thinking maybe they were staying until Monday at most! The guest announced, "I'm not leaving. I live here now." SERIOUSLY. I believe that the local community "watch" group and the police were involved.

zipporah

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 4:31 pm

de_goldy wrote:

Did the local Chabad shul try help? If yes, even if it was with the expectation of reimbursement, then I assume every shul could try help to that extent. Not necessarily succeed, just try.

I think every shul or community (depending on the size of the area) should put a call out for people willing to be asked. Then, if those people aren't available, you can honestly say that "our usual hosts don't have space right now."

and about the people who insist after being told no... part of the halacha is you have to be invited and wanted. So, then you just gotta be firm, but polite.

JRKmommy

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 4:53 pm

I forgot if I posted this already, but Chabad of Niagara Falls on the Canadian side does have a Shabbat program for visitors, where they have services and meals at the Sheraton Hotel.

http://www.jewishniagara.com/t.....e.htm

Yes, it is pricier than camping, but it allows for visitors to the area to have a reasonable option for Shabbat.

I also think it's possible that this rabbi may have just been having an off day (which doesn't take 9 pages to analyze). It happens - esp. after wisdom tooth removal, and possibly a slew of other phone calls and requests.

Ima2NYM_LTR

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 5:05 pm

JRKmommy wrote:

thanks. I found a place on the american side (which was my preferance) already

Inspired

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 5:25 pm

aidelmaidel wrote:

Inspired wrote:

are new baalei teshuva or gerim and need connections to already frum families

What in my post says any of these criteria are for hosts to make a judgment call when to say no?
Say yes or no as you feel comfortable.

Inspired

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 5:28 pm

aidelmaidel wrote:

Inspired - do you always say YES when someone asks you for shabbos hospitality? Do you always say YES even when it might not be a good week for you because it makes you uncomfortable?

Just curious.

No. I do not always say yes. I'm not sure what "makes you uncomfortable" means.
I say no when that's what I have to do.

aidelmaidel

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 5:32 pm

Inspired wrote:

aidelmaidel wrote:

Inspired wrote:

are new baalei teshuva or gerim and need connections to already frum families

What in my post says any of these criteria are for hosts to make a judgment call when to say no?
Say yes or no as you feel comfortable.

Aha, but in your mind was it inappropriate for her to have asked in the first place?

Inspired

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 5:42 pm

aidelmaidel wrote:

Inspired wrote:

aidelmaidel wrote:

Inspired wrote:

are new baalei teshuva or gerim and need connections to already frum families

What in my post says any of these criteria are for hosts to make a judgment call when to say no?
Say yes or no as you feel comfortable.

Aha, but in your mind was it inappropriate for her to have asked in the first place?

Didn't you say she's your friend? Where did I say that?

shanie5

Thu, Jul 22 2010, 7:32 pm

A number of years ago I was in our kosher store when a phone call came in. It was a woman whose child was in a nearby camp, and they wanted to come to our city for shabbos to make the trek to camp easier. I was asked by the owner of the store if I was interested and said yes. Well, since then, they have spent many shabbosim here, we have gone to visit them, they helped us with our bar mitzvahs, we went to their sons wedding.

They could have driven 3 hours on sunday, did not NEED to be here, but we made good friends because they asked-and HKBH put me in the right place at the right time.

Isramom8

Fri, Jul 23 2010, 11:41 am

After reading this thread, I looked into other options for my fantasy hypothetical Disney trip, and guess what? Doing a Disney trip to Paris would get me home to Israel for Shabbos, and cut our flying costs in half.

But my dd is appalled that I'm fantasizing about taking her to Iran (Paris sounds like Paras = Persia). Wink