Groceries: for suomynona

Seraph

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 8:47 am

Marion wrote:

Right. But there's a happy medium between overspending and eating half a serving of meat for supper.

Except that one drumstick and one thigh is NOT a double portion...it's a portion and a half. And it's not an insane amount to eat. Especially if you're not getting other protein during the day. The recommended # of protein servings (separate from milk and dairy) is 3.

Do you really think that people who eat a portion and a half (drumstick and thigh) or double portion (whole chicken beast) aren't getting tons of other protein during the day?

shalhevet

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 8:48 am

I think, Seraph, that most people don't want to feed their families "according to the book". OK, you have a cooperative husband and two little kids who don't know any better than what you give them, so if you divide up one chicken breast for your entire family it's fine for you.

However, I think you have to realize that there are issues other than nutritional ones. Most mothers and wives do not want to say to their families, 'no, you had your required x gram of protein for today, now eat rice or bread to fill up'. That's what's going to be happening in families with less cooperative husbands and/or older children.

The question (and it's not just a nutritional question, but also an emotional one, a chinuch one etc) is do we want to bring up our children as if they were living in a ghetto where we have to apportion food exactly? I'm not saying it can't be done. Just that you need to recognize the implications.

Now I have days where I'm serving leftovers or I have only the exact amount of something and I tell everyone to only take 1 so there will be enough left for the others (and they can fill up on something else). I also don't allow eating three portions of chicken with no starch. But I, personally, don't want to make it an everyday occurrence, that my children will always feel they wanted more of a basically healthy food and I wouldn't let them. Honestly? I'd rather serve lentil loaf in unlimited amounts than ration food at the table.

The bottom line. One - great it works for you. Two - People in the Western world eat too much protein. But... you have to realize it's not just another chapter in the frugal meals book.

shalhevet

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 8:58 am

I'm talking about healthy food that is brought to the table, not whatever that they wanted to buy in the store, and not about cake and candies. No, I don't want them to not have more chicken and then decide they don't want more rice, and end up eating cookies because they were hungry an hour later. I also don't want to say no to chicken because I know they'll drink a glass of milk with their supper and it will be enough daily protein, and in the end they didn't want the milk (or any more chicken the rest of the week).

Also - weightwatchers is not a way to determine portion sizes for people not on a diet, for children who might be on a growing spurt or teenagers who need many times that amount of energy (and still stay slim).

miriamg

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 9:00 am

I think that the other point is -- and this is why the thead was started -- how much does a diet like this cost, and what do you do if you just can't afford it. Whereas HashemYaazor/Tova are able to spend only $80-$100/week to eat like this, the same ingredients will cost suomynona significantly more in Israel. So if you want to spend the same amount of money as you would in the US for food in Israel, using R' Rubin/Badatz hechsherim, you either can't have chicken 5 days a week, or need to have smaller pieces of chicken each day, or some other way of cutting back. But practically every food item (including Chalav Yisrael products - excluding challos, rolls, bread and some vegetables) costs more in Israel than in America.

Seraph

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 9:05 am

shalhevet wrote:

I'm talking about healthy food that is brought to the table, not whatever that they wanted to buy in the store, and not about cake and candies.

But what if you got meat as a treat? Would you limit how much they could have, or would you let them eat as much as they wanted.

Quote:

No, I don't want them to not have more chicken and then decide they don't want more rice, and end up eating cookies because they were hungry an hour later.

Why does that have to be the option? Who said filling up on cookies when they're hungry later? When they're hungry later because they didn't eat enough supper, they can eat more supper, no?

saw50st8

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 9:07 am

My kids eat most of their protein at dinner. They can also easily eat a drumstick and thigh each (almost 3 year old and 1 year old).

In the US, frozen vegetables (non-bodek) are way cheaper usually and you can use coupons on them. Canned veggies, while less nutritious, are also very cheap.

I get chicken bottoms for $1.99/lb usually (or $1.59/lb if I get from Lakewood). I find chicken to be the much cheaper part of my budget - we eat a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables (usually whats in season) and it costs a lot more.

Sure, if we loaded up on starches, our bill would be a lot less. But that's not as healthy IMO. There is a middle ground.

Mirabelle

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 9:11 am

saw50st8 wrote:

I agree, the fresh fruits and veggie prices are quite high, even when you buy what is in season.

shalhevet

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 9:15 am

Seraph wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

I'm talking about healthy food that is brought to the table, not whatever that they wanted to buy in the store, and not about cake and candies.

But what if you got meat as a treat? Would you limit how much they could have, or would you let them eat as much as they wanted.

I mentioned already that if I only had a limited amount (say I'd bought meat for YT) I'd apportion it - but so everyone got fairly, not according to how much protein they needed to eat. If I wanted it to last for two days, I'd only bring half to the table. And I'd have yesterday's leftover chicken (for example) on offer if someone wanted more.

Quote:

No, I don't want them to not have more chicken and then decide they don't want more rice, and end up eating cookies because they were hungry an hour later.

Why does that have to be the option? Who said filling up on cookies when they're hungry later? When they're hungry later because they didn't eat enough supper, they can eat more supper, no?

Really? You'd just start serving supper all over again two hours later? Anyway here chicken is for lunch, so, yes it affects what they'll snack on at 4 or 5.

JAWSCIENCE

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 9:24 am

nylon wrote:

My sister lives in Manhattan and her Food Emporium is outrageous. Even by Manhattan standards. (Mind you, hers is the fancy shmancy one under the 59th St Bridge.) She shops at D'Agostino and only goes to Food Emporium when they have stuff on special. Fairway actually has decent prices by NYC standards if you take a Xanax first.

Here, bananas are 29¢/lb with shoppers card. CS milk $1.90.

the one on 59th is the "Bridge Market" and it is more expensive but has fancy items you can't get at other Food Emorium's. I try to never go there. I completely understand your sisters not wanting to go in there. I try to avoid even going into the regular Food Emporium if I can. D'agostino's pricing is just about the same as the pricing at my Food Emporium (I've checked) and it is a further walk so I only go when they run the really great specials. Instead I like to go to the produce guys who have the carts on the corners. I have identified which ones have the best stuff.

Fairway is pretty good for Manhattan prices but since it is across town I would need a car (very expensive) or 5$ for the bus and then limit myself to what one small woman could carry which would mean I would keep having to go back there. The Pathmark in Harlem is even cheaper. It works out best to go to Pathmark a few times a year and take a cab back (runs about 15$) and stock up on the vitals. If your sister has a car she might want to try it. They have a free parking lot. If she is going on public transport like me she may want to take her DH with her.

merelyme

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 9:45 am

shalhevet wrote:

Seraph wrote:

shalhevet wrote:

No, I don't want them to not have more chicken and then decide they don't want more rice, and end up eating cookies because they were hungry an hour later.

Why does that have to be the option? Who said filling up on cookies when they're hungry later? When they're hungry later because they didn't eat enough supper, they can eat more supper, no?

Really? You'd just start serving supper all over again two hours later? Anyway here chicken is for lunch, so, yes it affects what they'll snack on at 4 or 5.

Besides, if they didn't want more rice at suppertime, they won't want it an hour later either.
We're not talking about little kids, remember. It's not such a good idea to tell a teenager, "If you didn't like what was for supper, too bad - that's all you're getting till tomorrow morning."

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 10:03 am

Seraph, I don't think eating a leq quarter for dinner is overdoing it. At all. I don't think everyone necessarily gets enough protein during the day, depending on their eating habits. It's easy enough if you eat balanced meals, but eating a salad for lunch (while low fat) won't give that much protein.
Also nursing and pregnant women have higher protein needs. Much, much higher.
I myself will eat 3 legs for a Shabbos seudah sometimes, and I don't feel like a glutton. (I remember after one of my babies was born my father in law brought over some chicken. I probably ate 5-6 legs...I couldn't understand it, till I realized how much I NEEDED protein at that stage, and filling up on soups and salads for lunch which is what I had been doing was no where near meeting my protein needs.)

That being said, I do think it's possible to serve chicken during the week like you do -- make one breast go far. That's why I almost never make chicken for supper as a dish onto itself (I have a few times, always because of time constraints.)
I can take chicken I cut into strips, mix it in a stir fry with nuts (more protein), veggies (including....gasp, pre-checked broccoli, but that's the only way we'll eat it, and for me it's a super food: has protein, iron, calcium, vitamins, so I buy it on sale), sometimes chickpeas (depending on the flavor of stir fry), and rice. Other times I will serve the strips of chicken flavored like shwarma or what not, and serve it with a salad inside a whole wheat pita (but I do end up using more chicken that way; still not a piece per person). That's how I make my food stretch.

I hate wings because you get so little chicken to skin and bone, but if I buy a chicken, I still use them...this Shabbos for instance, I made one breast (my husband), 2 legs (me), 2 thighs, and 2 wings. My kids ended up being too tired to eat their chicken at the seudah, and so I saved it for Sunday for them. On Sunday, I made wraps for them, cutting the chicken from those wings plus 1 thigh (I had eaten the other for Shabbos lunch), filling it with coleslaw and romaine lettuce. So my chicken wasn't wasted, my kids were full, and shalom al yisroel.

I can't remember the last time I bought duck sauce, but I do make saucy chicken some weeks. This week, I combined honey and orange juice, and that was the flavor for our Shabbos chicken.

Regarding frozen: yes, I rely on it. I also buy fresh if it's worth it. But you saw from my grocery shopping last week that I bought frozen green beans (and broccoli, which I always do) as well as diced onions (my vice; I sometimes chop onions, but not always -- depending on how much I need and time I have)...the diced onions are more expensive per lb, but the green beans aren't necessarily.

Mama Bear

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 10:06 am

Seraph wrote:

Mama Bear wrote:

It's basically impossible to check broccoli and cauliflower yourself. they dont even sell it in my neighborhood stores.
Why would I buy a whole chicken? I need 3 bottoms or 3 cutlets per supper. I dont use the wings. a whole chicken wouldnt give me a full supper, only 2 half suppers, and pieces of meat I dont need.
of course, it's possible to save money by doing lots of things yourrself.
I find when I buy fresh lettuce, I never end up checking it or using it. I buy bodek's, they last me a week and I eat salad daily.

Why not eat wings? Do you never eat shnitzel? You can cut the white meat off a whole chicken and make that into shnitzels. Why do you only ever eat whole bottoms for supper every night? Other types of chicken aren't good enough? I did calculations and bottoms are the absolute most expensive cut of meat.

I dont like wings. on the rare occasion I serve it to dh, I buy a whole package of wings.

Bottoms are cheaper than cutlets. about $6 for 4 bottoms. cutlets are $8 or $9 for 4.

as I said, we eat either the bottoms or the cutlets. I dont like the wings. what other parts of chicken are there?

Mama Bear

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 10:11 am

Seraph wrote:

And can I say that I found it astounding that a family of 4 with 2 adults and 2 small kids eats 3 thighs and 3 legs every night for supper!
One thigh has 13.5 grams of protein, and 109 calories. 1 drumstick has 14.1 grams of protein and 112 calories. That means that one chicken bottom has 27.6 grams of protein and 221 calories. Grown women only need 46 grams of protein a day and grown men only need 56 grams of protein a day, and most foods we eat from rice to pasta to bread to peanut butter to tuna to tomatoes to milk to yogurt to cheese to nearly every food has protein. If you eat a whole chicken quarter every night for supper, you're probably overdosing on protein, overdosing on calories, and overdosing on your pocketbook..

We eat 2 thighs and 2 drumsticks when we have a shabbos meal for our family of 4- 2 adults and 2 kids.

I dont see what the big deal is. Dh has a bottom, my kids share a bottom, and I have the other bottom. pasta and rice and tomato are not protein. A 200+ pound man who worked physical labor for 9 hours shouldnt have a chicken bottom for supper? and half a bottom is very good for small kids. as for me, well, I usually only end up eating half a bottom. If I'm patient I can cut it in half before I cook it.

Mama Bear

Tue, Dec 28 2010, 10:19 am

Seraph,a chicken bottom for an adult is not a double portion. Not in my culture. cultural differences.
Chicken is not that expensive here. fish is more expensive.
We've discussed this ad nauseaum. We have different culinary styles. And I'm not about to tell my husband that he can only have a thigh or drumstick because that 50 cents the drumstick costs is a waste of money.
You are not a fan of protein and certainly not of chicken protein. It's NOT high in calories. pasta has empty calories. (white) rice and potatoes have empty calories. Protein are building blocks for the brain.
Whatever... what you say goes completely against the normal frum american supper menu Smile