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-> Interesting Discussions
chani8
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 Sun, Apr 21 2013, 1:09 am
| celestial wrote: | I actually think it's really funny how some amothers are getting suuuuper touchy about this. Like they MUST question the OP's motives because chos v'shalom it is genuine - because then it might make them feel insecure!
Op, I admire you a lot.
My question for you is if there is an issue when you are in niddah. And does it truly help you focus more to have the tefillin on? It's kind of my dream to do this, but I don't know if I would ever have the courage. |
Have you ever shaken a lulav and esrog? I see this as being in the same category.
I think women should experience it once in their lifetime, if they want to. But TG we're not obligated in it!
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chani8
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 1:17 am
| amother wrote: | OP here.
I go to a shul. It has a mechitzah. I don't wear tallit when I go on Shabbat out of lack of desire to enter into this conversation with my community and the shul's rabbi (or be asked to take it off or leave?). I do birkot hatorah and hashachar, put on my tallit, and say shema at home, and then daven the rest at shul without the tallit. I've yet to find the right shul and community for me, where I can have the halachik standards I need (and a kahal that reflects them) and the ability to daven the way I do openly... Though there are a couple of shuls in other cities that come close.
I didn't have a bat mitzvah celebration.  I took this on when I was engaged. |
Can you explain a little more on the bolded here? I aso have yet to find the right shul, and am curious what you are looking for.
I am looking for an all woman's tefilla where the women run the whole show, where they have their own room instead of being stuck behind a mechitza. Does such a thing exist? Do you think this is a good idea or not?
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cookiecutter
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 1:24 am
So I read the topic to this point and it goes something like this:
OP
One or two guarded questions about the ideas behind deciding to do it
Fifteen people complaining about people attacking OP
I have no ideological judgment of the practice, and I am asking this without any belief at all as to whether it's a good idea. In my opinion, if it makes you feel religiously fulfilled, do it.
However, I do wonder why the practice is not self contradictory.
To sum it up, here's a syllogism:
In order to act against what poskim claim is halacha, you must believe that halacha is changeable.
If Halacha is changeable, then it's the ritual actions of the community rather than "one true law" that give religion meaning.
If it's communal ritual that makes religion meaningful, how can you find meaning in something that opposes communal ritual?
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DrMom
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 1:28 am
| cookiecutter wrote: | So I read the topic to this point and it goes something like this:
OP
One or two guarded questions about the ideas behind deciding to do it
Fifteen people complaining about people attacking OP
I have no ideological judgment of the practice, and I am asking this without any belief at all as to whether it's a good idea. In my opinion, if it makes you feel religiously fulfilled, do it.
However, I do wonder why the practice is not self contradictory.
To sum it up, here's a syllogism:
In order to act against what poskim claim is halacha, you must believe that halacha is changeable.
If Halacha is changeable, then it's the ritual actions of the community rather than "one true law" that give religion meaning.
If it's communal ritual that makes religion meaningful, how can you find meaning in something that opposes communal ritual? |
I question your assumption that only communal ritual makes religion meaningful. Esp when we are talking about women's davening, which does not require a minyan.
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cookiecutter
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 1:32 am
| DrMom wrote: | | cookiecutter wrote: | So I read the topic to this point and it goes something like this:
OP
One or two guarded questions about the ideas behind deciding to do it
Fifteen people complaining about people attacking OP
I have no ideological judgment of the practice, and I am asking this without any belief at all as to whether it's a good idea. In my opinion, if it makes you feel religiously fulfilled, do it.
However, I do wonder why the practice is not self contradictory.
To sum it up, here's a syllogism:
In order to act against what poskim claim is halacha, you must believe that halacha is changeable.
If Halacha is changeable, then it's the ritual actions of the community rather than "one true law" that give religion meaning.
If it's communal ritual that makes religion meaningful, how can you find meaning in something that opposes communal ritual? |
I question your assumption that only communal ritual makes religion meaningful. Esp when we are talking about women's davening, which does not require a minyan. | I don't mean things that are done communally. I mean things that are accepted among a community as normative practice.
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blini
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 1:38 am
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I am really interested in learning more about how you came to do this. I am sure you won't, but please don't let any arguing in this thread scare you away.
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mummy1985
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:13 am
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This is really interesting because I've been really thinking about trying tallis and tefillin
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chani8
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:14 am
| cookiecutter wrote: | So I read the topic to this point and it goes something like this:
OP
One or two guarded questions about the ideas behind deciding to do it
Fifteen people complaining about people attacking OP
I have no ideological judgment of the practice, and I am asking this without any belief at all as to whether it's a good idea. In my opinion, if it makes you feel religiously fulfilled, do it.
However, I do wonder why the practice is not self contradictory.
To sum it up, here's a syllogism:
In order to act against what poskim claim is halacha, you must believe that halacha is changeable.
If Halacha is changeable, then it's the ritual actions of the community rather than "one true law" that give religion meaning.
If it's communal ritual that makes religion meaningful, how can you find meaning in something that opposes communal ritual? |
What are you talking about. Where is the halacha that women are halachically ussered from wearing tefillin. On another thread (WOW thread?), I thought someone posted Rav Feinstein poskened that women are allowed to do this as long as they are not just doing it to protest women's lib.
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chani8
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:16 am
| mummy1985 wrote: | | This is really interesting because I've been really thinking about trying tallis and tefillin |
I just told my DH that I want to do it just once. LOL
OP, apparently you're being an inspiration. 
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DrMom
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:31 am
My questions:
- How many other people in your life know about this practice, and how do they feel about it?
- Why did you choose your engagement as the time to take this practice on? Did your finacee know about it when you were engaged?
- Do you wear tsitsit on all 4-cornered garments, or do you avoid them in order to not have to put tsitsit on them?
- In what way does it feel different to daven with vs. without tefillin/tallit?
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Jewishmom8
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:36 am
| amother wrote: | | I cover my hair. I only wear skirts. My husband and I keep the harchakot. I only eat chalak (glatt). My practice in tefilla has never been a public performance, and I am very committed to what I have taken on. I'm all about ahavat yisrael, so please try to keep this thread respectful. |
I have a question.
how did you decide that this was the way in which you wanted to grow in terms of your personal Jewish growth.
like was this something that just spoke to you that you wanted to connect with?
more than like taking shmiras halashon more seriously or keeping shabbos more stringently or somthing like that?
was it that you wanted to connect to hashem though daveing in a that way?
why was regular davening and tehillim etc not enough for you?
I may be really charedi but I am not coming from a place of disrespect or anything like that.
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HindaRochel
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:38 am
| chani8 wrote: | | cookiecutter wrote: | So I read the topic to this point and it goes something like this:
OP
One or two guarded questions about the ideas behind deciding to do it
Fifteen people complaining about people attacking OP
I have no ideological judgment of the practice, and I am asking this without any belief at all as to whether it's a good idea. In my opinion, if it makes you feel religiously fulfilled, do it.
However, I do wonder why the practice is not self contradictory.
To sum it up, here's a syllogism:
In order to act against what poskim claim is halacha, you must believe that halacha is changeable.
If Halacha is changeable, then it's the ritual actions of the community rather than "one true law" that give religion meaning.
If it's communal ritual that makes religion meaningful, how can you find meaning in something that opposes communal ritual? |
What are you talking about. Where is the halacha that women are halachically ussered from wearing tefillin. On another thread (WOW thread?), I thought someone posted Rav Feinstein poskened that women are allowed to do this as long as they are not just doing it to protest women's lib. |
Rashi's daughter's wore.
Some Rabbi's pasken that the tallis has to be a bit different than a man's tallis. But I have heard Orthodox Rabbis mater the practice.
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jerusalem-girl
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:50 am
Op, I would love to hear your answers. Are you still around?
I can see why a woman would want to wear tallis and tefillin, although I personally would not go that route (for personal hashkafic reasons, and because, frankly, I have so many stuff on my spiritual to-do list that tallis and tefillin will not make it on even if I lived five hundred years.)
My questions:
What made you do it?
How does it feel? Do you feel more connected this way? How are your friends and family with this?
Is it something you would reccomend to other women? Where in the world do you live?
(I think that with the exception of one post, all the questions asked were not attacking. I think that some people are super-sensitive to this issue.)
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mummy1985
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:53 am
| chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | This is really interesting because I've been really thinking about trying tallis and tefillin |
I just told my DH that I want to do it just once. LOL
OP, apparently you're being an inspiration. |
so strange I didn't finish my post, I was typing on my mobile
Anyway it's really interesting as just today I was thinking about it because of WOW and thinking that according to halacha it's okay then when did we lose the mesorah? were women ever wearing tallis and tefillin? only Rashi's daughters? how come he didn't 'make' it into halacha? I would really like to try it at least once just to gain a deeper understanding of the mitzva, also do I need to be 'clean'?
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chani8
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 3:00 am
| mummy1985 wrote: | | chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | This is really interesting because I've been really thinking about trying tallis and tefillin |
I just told my DH that I want to do it just once. LOL
OP, apparently you're being an inspiration. |
so strange I didn't finish my post, I was typing on my mobile
Anyway it's really interesting as just today I was thinking about it because of WOW and thinking that according to halacha it's okay then when did we lose the mesorah? were women ever wearing tallis and tefillin? only Rashi's daughters? how come he didn't 'make' it into halacha? I would really like to try it at least once just to gain a deeper understanding of the mitzva, also do I need to be 'clean'? |
Can you take challah when you're nidda? Can you shake a lulav when nidda? Or rather, can a man put on tefillin when he is tamei??
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mummy1985
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 3:03 am
| chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | This is really interesting because I've been really thinking about trying tallis and tefillin |
I just told my DH that I want to do it just once. LOL
OP, apparently you're being an inspiration. |
so strange I didn't finish my post, I was typing on my mobile
Anyway it's really interesting as just today I was thinking about it because of WOW and thinking that according to halacha it's okay then when did we lose the mesorah? were women ever wearing tallis and tefillin? only Rashi's daughters? how come he didn't 'make' it into halacha? I would really like to try it at least once just to gain a deeper understanding of the mitzva, also do I need to be 'clean'? |
Can you take challah when your nidda? Can you shake a lulav when nidda? Or rather, can a man put on tefillin when he is tamei?? |
oh I just thought they might be an issue because you can't touch a sefer torah when you are impure, I thought maybe they could be something similar when with tefillin
Good to know it's not an issue if I try it...
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chani8
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 3:06 am
| mummy1985 wrote: | | chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | This is really interesting because I've been really thinking about trying tallis and tefillin |
I just told my DH that I want to do it just once. LOL
OP, apparently you're being an inspiration. |
so strange I didn't finish my post, I was typing on my mobile
Anyway it's really interesting as just today I was thinking about it because of WOW and thinking that according to halacha it's okay then when did we lose the mesorah? were women ever wearing tallis and tefillin? only Rashi's daughters? how come he didn't 'make' it into halacha? I would really like to try it at least once just to gain a deeper understanding of the mitzva, also do I need to be 'clean'? |
Can you take challah when your nidda? Can you shake a lulav when nidda? Or rather, can a man put on tefillin when he is tamei?? |
oh I just thought they might be an issue because you can't touch a sefer torah when you are impure, I thought maybe they could be something similar when with tefillin
Good to know it's not an issue if I try it... |
I wasn't answering, I was brainstorming with you. Can a man put on tefillin when he is tamei?
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HindaRochel
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 3:13 am
| mummy1985 wrote: | | chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | This is really interesting because I've been really thinking about trying tallis and tefillin |
I just told my DH that I want to do it just once. LOL
OP, apparently you're being an inspiration. |
so strange I didn't finish my post, I was typing on my mobile
Anyway it's really interesting as just today I was thinking about it because of WOW and thinking that according to halacha it's okay then when did we lose the mesorah? were women ever wearing tallis and tefillin? only Rashi's daughters? how come he didn't 'make' it into halacha? I would really like to try it at least once just to gain a deeper understanding of the mitzva, also do I need to be 'clean'? |
Can you take challah when your nidda? Can you shake a lulav when nidda? Or rather, can a man put on tefillin when he is tamei?? |
oh I just thought they might be an issue because you can't touch a sefer torah when you are impure, I thought maybe they could be something similar when with tefillin
Good to know it's not an issue if I try it... |
Yes you can touch the Sefer Torah when you are in nidah. The Sefer Torah is not mekabel tumah.
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mummy1985
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 3:16 am
| HindaRochel wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | This is really interesting because I've been really thinking about trying tallis and tefillin |
I just told my DH that I want to do it just once. LOL
OP, apparently you're being an inspiration. |
so strange I didn't finish my post, I was typing on my mobile
Anyway it's really interesting as just today I was thinking about it because of WOW and thinking that according to halacha it's okay then when did we lose the mesorah? were women ever wearing tallis and tefillin? only Rashi's daughters? how come he didn't 'make' it into halacha? I would really like to try it at least once just to gain a deeper understanding of the mitzva, also do I need to be 'clean'? |
Can you take challah when your nidda? Can you shake a lulav when nidda? Or rather, can a man put on tefillin when he is tamei?? |
oh I just thought they might be an issue because you can't touch a sefer torah when you are impure, I thought maybe they could be something similar when with tefillin
Good to know it's not an issue if I try it... |
Yes you can touch the Sefer Torah when you are in nidah. The Sefer Torah is not mekabel tumah. |
yes but men can't even touch the inside they have to use a pointer no?
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bamamama
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Sun, Apr 21 2013, 3:17 am
| HindaRochel wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | chani8 wrote: | | mummy1985 wrote: | | This is really interesting because I've been really thinking about trying tallis and tefillin |
I just told my DH that I want to do it just once. LOL
OP, apparently you're being an inspiration. |
so strange I didn't finish my post, I was typing on my mobile
Anyway it's really interesting as just today I was thinking about it because of WOW and thinking that according to halacha it's okay then when did we lose the mesorah? were women ever wearing tallis and tefillin? only Rashi's daughters? how come he didn't 'make' it into halacha? I would really like to try it at least once just to gain a deeper understanding of the mitzva, also do I need to be 'clean'? |
Can you take challah when your nidda? Can you shake a lulav when nidda? Or rather, can a man put on tefillin when he is tamei?? |
oh I just thought they might be an issue because you can't touch a sefer torah when you are impure, I thought maybe they could be something similar when with tefillin
Good to know it's not an issue if I try it... |
Yes you can touch the Sefer Torah when you are in nidah. The Sefer Torah is not mekabel tumah. |
^yeah that.
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