Pro Vaxxers - How are we retaliating?

Dolly Welsh

Mon, May 05 2014, 9:45 pm

"May", eh. So there is an issue. There is going to be, in time, when this really gets going, a mowing down of oldsters.

And who knows if you have to be all that old?

Maybe forty is old enough to need boosters? Fifty?

And these diseases are no joke in adults.

Is all that accurate? I am no medic.

Back when everybody got vaccines, it was ok for them to wear off, because the diseases had been eliminated, more or less.

But there may be a whole lot of people who are NOT children who are going to find themselves with these diseases. They won't necessarily die, but it won't be nice.

But I am no medic.

Scrabble123

Mon, May 05 2014, 9:48 pm

Dolly: If doctors will notice this becoming an issue they will make sure that their patients become properly immunized again, not to mention that legislation will tighten up on the non-vaxxers. IYH you'll be okay.

*You see that they encourage Td shots every 5-10 years depending on the situation. They added a Tdap to the schedule as they saw the P was wearing off.

Hashem_Yaazor

Mon, May 05 2014, 9:57 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You are not thinking logically here. Vaccinations have not been around long enough to prove that lifelong immunity was ever attained. The vaccination era started around 60 years ago, and only now are we able to see when immunity wears off. This has nothing to do with people not getting vaccinated. If it is true that immunity has worn off (I really would not be that concerned, honestly) there are more vaccinated-non-immune people "to blame" than non-vaccinated children. There never was a time that we had middle aged people with worn off immunity who were "safe" because of vaccinated children -- therefore, it's not a scary new phenomenon that perhaps with a rise in more people not vaccinating the older generation is at risk.

That being said, most people in their 60s actually got the measles, so their immunity should be just fine as they never needed the vaccine. As for pertussis, that can be transmitted vaccinated or not, so it's a moot point. Either way, past young childhood, it's not considered severe, but perhaps in the elderly subset, one would want to make sure he or she had good protection.

Dolly Welsh

Mon, May 05 2014, 10:18 pm

Having had the measles does confer immunity, but it has very probably worn off by your sixties. Measles is indeed around now.

Yes, the rarity of the diseases was protecting the worn-off people!

You say: "There never was a time that we had middle aged people with worn off immunity who were "safe" because of vaccinated children "

but of COURSE there was. And there still is. Right now.

These diseases are not common yet. AND THAT'S WHY. Because most kids are vaccinated, B"H.

Going into a crowd and getting something, a cold or who knows, is one thing. These diseases are not just one more thing you can get. They torment for weeks or months. They are big deals. They are serious and dread diseases. Sometimes they kill.

And yes they are back because of the anti-vaxxers.

Yes the mechanisms of shedding and transmission are complicated but that's still the basic truth about this situation.

A huge concern is availability of the boosters.

It's not like buying a quart of milk. There may be limited availability.

Oldsters die anyway because it's their time, but it's annoying to have the date advanced because of some crunch nut somewhere.

amother

Mon, May 05 2014, 10:43 pm

Mil is a nurse and the other day in her clinic she saw a very very sick little girl. They sent her to the hospital. later that day mil got sent home from work because the sick little girl had the measles. She was too young to have gotten her second round of the immunization and she had just come back from India where she contracted measles.

Mil was sent home until it could be confirmed that she had had the measles before. She was told to stay away from my children, one of whom is too young to have had all the rounds of shots yet.

When they confirmed that mil had in fact had the measles, it was declared that she could go back to work because she is immune. She is 60, so I guess having had them means she is still immune at 60.

such a sad story for the little girl. They are pro vaxxers who were doing what they could to help their little girl and because she was too young she got sick.

People are so selfish...

Dolly Welsh

Mon, May 05 2014, 11:50 pm

amother wrote:

Your MIL could be fighting it off now. Successfully I am sure. But it might be an idea to postpone her seeing your kids, the youngest obviously, but even all of them. She may still be in the mopping up phase in an active way. I would give it a few weeks before a visit with her.

Being vaccinated only means you have the tools to fight it off. You still have to fight it off. Eventually it slinks away, but not instantly.

She should be well.

3mitzvos

Tue, May 06 2014, 4:41 am

vintagebknyc wrote:

studies show that no matter how much evidence the anti-vaxxer is shown, she/he does not waver. in fact, gets more adamant about anti-vax beliefs.

I fear it's going to take a polio outbreak and a whole lot of children getting sick to make people see the truth--and from my posts on the other thread, that's on its way. terribly sad.

There actually was a polio outbreak here in Israel not so long ago... very sad... and yes, it is because ppl chose not to vaccinate.

ora_43

Tue, May 06 2014, 4:56 am

I think a pro-vaccine campaign would be a nice idea.

Like a previous amother said, very few people really understand the science involved. So it's not so simple, IMO, to say "oh, but this is the side supported by science, people should see that." The anti-vaccine movement has studies and doctors - maybe studies that have been disproven, and doctors whose area of expertise has zero to do with vaccines, but still. When you add in all the scare stories about autism and brain damage, it can be a lot for parents to shrug off with, "eh, I trust my doctor." They might barely know their doctor.

I think it would help, or at least not hurt, to address some of the common anti-vaccine arguments. Like, "Myth: the MMR vaccine causes autism. Fact: An analysis of over 100 studies has found no link between the MMR vaccine and autism. A 1998 paper claiming a link was later found to have been fraudulent," "Myth: These used to be common childhood illnesses. There's no harm in letting my child simply contract the illness. Fact: While measles and mumps are rarely fatal among otherwise healthy children, they can be extremely dangerous to those with weak immune systems, including young babies and the elderly." (these are just short examples, of course, you'd want more studies, information on non-fatal long-term effects of illness, books/websites where people can find more information, etc)

Basically, some people need more reassurance that they aren't hurting their baby than "because science" (which is logical, because standard medical practice does change over time, ie, doctors aren't always right and even "science" isn't always right). It's not realistic to try to explain the science down to the details, but just giving a sense of how overwhelmingly the evidence supports one side can't hurt.

someone

Tue, May 06 2014, 5:19 am

Quote:

Why in the world are those who get vaccinated concerned about others who are not vaccinated. YOUR KIDS ARE SAFE. Right??

I think (correct me if Im wrong, Im not an expert on this) that people who believe that their kids are safe because they are vaccinated are worried about babies who arent yet vaccinated, and for whom these illnesses are the most dangerous.

Culturedpearls

Tue, May 06 2014, 5:32 am

GreenEyes26 wrote:

There is nothing to say to non-vaxers. When you're that delusional/stupid/arrogant/misinformed and most of all, selfish, nothing gets through. Save your breath and don't let your kids play with 'em. To bad, my kids may lose some friends that way in the future. Better than dealing with this mishegas.

This. You cannot present rational arguments to irrational people. Save your breath.
Where I live the government pays those whose kids are vaccinated on schedule.
Additionally the government also covers half the cost of child care for kids who are on schedule with vaccinations and if you're late this gets suspended in 4 weeks.
The result is that bar a few really crunchy, stay at home moms people vaccinate.

Culturedpearls

Tue, May 06 2014, 5:37 am

chocolate chips wrote:

Us pro vaxers are strong, smart and clever enough to know what we are doing is 110% right and there is not other way about it.
Why even start up with those selfish people who think are the idiots who by chance happen to be protecting their kids (herd immunity) while they infect ours?!

No retaliation necessary.

The problem is that if your infant is too young to be vaccinated he's at risk.
Also some people don't get immunity from certain vaccines & they now cannot rely on herd immunity. Ofcouse there's also a small percentage with allergic reactions to vaccines for whom herd immunity is necessary.

amother

Tue, May 06 2014, 6:17 am

someone wrote:

Quote:

Why in the world are those who get vaccinated concerned about others who are not vaccinated. YOUR KIDS ARE SAFE. Right??

This. I am currently expecting my first and I am livid that the yeshiva I work in expects me back at work before my baby will have had any of the first round vaccinations. Forget about the vaccines that don't come until much later. I am very into using natural products, eating organic etc, but I draw the line at endangering others.

deena19k

Tue, May 06 2014, 7:00 am

amother wrote:

how are you endangering others?