Fuming at dh | Imamother

amother

Thu, Jul 30 2020, 5:45 pm

Ok . So to make it even clearer. My dh didnt leave without saying good bye intentionally, and usually that's not the case unless he is rushing to . (He is very serious in his being on time for minyunim . ) when it comes to making his minyen , whatever be , he is not skipping or getting late to shul kinds of things . Should it be a seyim, kiddish , davening , whatever his shul makes , that's his first priority. To be on time all . The time. But that still doesnt mean he shouldnt remind out loud and clear to the kids that in so and so minutes I'm leaving . Or to give one reminder even before he leaves. I feel just to disappear like this isnt mentchlich . I didnt have a time to discuss it yet since my kids are around but I feel he also needs to compromise. That said my dh is a special person and has a ton of good parts in him and far from a bad person. Yet this is one of his imperfections that really is getting to me more and more and I wanted to hear from other perspectives your thoughts .

amother

Bronze

Thu, Jul 30 2020, 6:15 pm

Please don’t judge if you haven’t walked in OPs husbands shoes.
It’s unreasonable to say he lacks empathy and other accusations, due to lack of your understanding of his nature and background.

On Tisha Bav can we try to remember that people are inherently good, and are well meaning!

He may feel he has told them to be ready at 5:30. If ds would like to join he will be a the door at 5:30 prompt.
(Like he did when he was that age?)

If you can come to understand that his intentions are good (it’s important to be in shul on time) and approach him with understanding, and no judgment, perhaps you can help him understand to give prior warning and sort out this issue.

mandksima

Thu, Jul 30 2020, 6:45 pm

I've been married over 20 years so it's been a work in progress but my dh is also a lot like that when it comes to being punctual. In the beginning it was so foreign to me as I am not one to be extra early so CV"S I'd ever be late. I leave on time, try to leave a few min leeway and hope nothing makes me late. That was before kids with just me and dh.

After kids, much harder but by then I did learn to appreciate his sense of being on time or early. He is very careful never to make anyone wait for him and is careful with everyone's time. He has compromised over the years by not setting all of the house clocks 5 min fast which drove me nuts and he gives lots of warnings. IMO, way too many annoying warnings (like "we're leaving in 5 min" then "we're leaving in 4 min", all the way down to one) and has the kids start way too early in order that they shouldn't make him leave late. The kids don't resent him at all, I think it's just me ticked off sometimes but now I laugh about it. The kids know this is the way their father is, they respect it and know that they need to be on the early side and wait for him. It's not done meanly at all and it's okay for a parent to have a thing they are adamant about, especially when it comes to something that can potentially make someone else need to wait. Respect has to go to the other parties involved too like men waiting for the 10th man, someone at a meeting waiting to start, etc...

I've really learned to respect this part of him. I think in the beginning he may have left without telling the kids but that was remedied in the beginning. I think if you respect his need to be on time, he can start to respect your wishes on giving a heads up if he's leaving. He probably figures the kids will learn after a time or two, and they will, but you can still demand a warning for shalom bayis (your sake and not for the kids as much.) If you think he is overly crazy with it, he knows your lack of support in the matter and it will remain a source of contention and stress. Better to look for the positive attributes in this trait and just work out the details that need to be worked out for your kids. Respect is not the same for parent/child relationship so I don't think it needs to be worked on. I think it is about the spouse respect, at least that's how it was with us. It took a while for me not to try to get dh to change because I saw his way as wrong and foreign and for me to accept that this was who he was and was happy being. He doesn't have to change but he should make sure to give a warning that he's leaving for your sake.

ShishKabob

Thu, Jul 30 2020, 7:01 pm

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

Ok, yes, I think you are overreacting because you are not just reacting to yesterday, but to all the years your dh has done this.

I can see how you are very different from each other in this regard. It wouldn't have hurt if dh said bye as he was leaving so any kids could have ran to catch up. That might be a workaround compromise for the future. If dh had said bye to you, your ds could have caught him going.

But I will tell you, you see it as what are the kids, garbage? Of course they take longer. You're kids only see that dh is a man of his word & responsibility. This will not affect them negatively in the long run. It's not cozy, wozy but it won't. It can actually have positive effects. If they are old enough for shul, they are old enough to know your dh is leaving exactly when he said.

Im tending to agree with this train of thought because this is solid advice and not helping op feel like the victim here, it's giving her a wat to see it in a positive or effective light.

amother

Turquoise

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 12:17 am

causemommysaid wrote:

honestly he sounds like he is on the spectrum. Being this rigid and fixated on schedules is not normal behavior.

1) Not everything that you don't like or don't understand means the person is autistic.
1b) Implying so insults autistic people.
1c) You don't diagnose over the internet.

2) OP said her DH is a yekke. This is very very typical yekke behavior. And it is completely normal in their circles, whereas what OP describes her own behavior to be is not normal in yekke circles. At all.

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 12:22 am

The problem here, is that it's being seen as "either/or". Either you are on time and everyone suffers, or everyone gets to go and DH suffers. There IS a normal way of doing things.

I'm always early for everything. It's my own anxiety. I learned that making someone wait for you was a form of stealing, because you are stealing time from them that they will never get back. You can't "repay" lost time.

Still, that doesn't give me an excuse to be a jerk about it. I understand that not everyone thinks the same way I do. I give others fair warning, and I'm willing to be one or two minutes later out the door, if that is what's needed for chinuch or shalom bayis.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to be spot on time for anything regarding a mitzva. You are going to meet with the Ruler of the Universe, do you want to take that casually? So instead, help your family understand the value of time in a CONSTRUCTIVE way. Show how much you love the mitzva, and how much you want to share that mitzva with the rest of the family. Walking out on them without a word is not the answer.

Yes, it's annoying to chase after kids who are old enough to know better. It's annoying to have to keep saying "You need to get your shoes on now, because we are leaving in 5 minutes. You need to stop playing that game and find your coat." etc. But guess what? That's part of being a parent. You do things for your kids while looking at the long term outcome, not just what is good for you in the next 10 minutes. You will be teaching your kids good habits, and eventually you won't have to nag them so much.

OP, you need to take some responsibility too, and start herding the kids towards the door a little bit sooner. DH will love you for it, and things will be much more peaceful for everyone.

amother

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 1:14 am

Ok I appreciate everyone's input and some for helping me with solutions. well, bh I did calm down about it , I voiced it to my dh that I was upset about it and told him all about how it could make ds feel. My dh was still upset today claiming that I yelled to hard at him when I called him the first time last night to ask why he had left, and today my dh was not in such best of mood about it . Tho, he did a good job today with confronting the kids5 minutes before he left , which I do think it's a short notice for when it comes to waking up and make them be ready in 7 minutes timing. Tho , it did work this time and the kids went with him. But its definitely something I need to learn to accept that this is who he is , and he should also learn to count a little more on the kids . Showing he waits 5 minutes or giving a big reminder atleast 5 minutes or before he leaves. Hope u can understand that , but just to suddenly disappear can be very upsetting.

amother

Chartreuse

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 3:25 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don’t think you are correct- DS needs to find his own minyan if he can’t make it on time for your husband’s. My DH is the same way- and I have come to agree with him- if my DS is told that he will be leaving to shul at 7:15, he should be ready to go at 7:10 to make the ride. And if he misses the ride, that’s on DS (as long as DH left at the time he said he would). Reminding isn’t chinuch- sure you can do it on occasion. But if done too often the kid is just waiting for the 5 minute warning instead of taking on the responsibility to be on time- which is a healthy and proper thing to do. It’s not right to make people wait for you to be ready- that’s the un-mentchlich way to act imo

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 3:33 am

OP, that is amazing that he listened to you, and gave the kids a 5 minute warning the next time! That's more progress than most wives get, so I hope you praised him for it. It shows that there is what to work with.

If you could take on giving the 10 minute warning, and then let DH give the 5 minute warning, between the two of you things could run a whole lot smoother, and no one would get their feelings hurt.

Think of it as being the same as making sure your kid gets a snack BEFORE they get so hungry that they start fighting with their brother.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of shalom bayis. Very Happy

(BTW, you didn't mention if any of your kids have ADD tendencies. If this is the case, then you may have to keep after them pretty consistently. That's part of life, too.)

amother

Lawngreen

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 6:19 am

You yelled at him so hard? Over this? I hesitated to bring up the "fuming" before; however, perhaps there is more going on here that needs to be addressed to get you what you want.

Some people's form of chinuch is natural consequences and letting the kids take the responsibility for their decisions, punctuality, and the like. From what I read you described a situation where the kids know DH is leaving and is punctual and where he is going. If everyone is disregarding that that still does not mean DH suddenly disappeared without warning. Many people don't think they have to cajole kids to join though sometimes one parent does do more of the reminding than the other if that works for them. Your kids probably know you view DH and his punctuality and method like this and that does not help them "own" their actions and decisions. Doesn't sound like they are toddlers either in which age appropriate guidance would differ. You do not want to let a triangulation situation or enmeshment develop. Like you and the kids vs. DH. You want clean boundaries and direct effective communication. And productive chinuch for your kids as well. A healthy family. Respect between and toward the parents.

Im sorry Op but perhaps both of you need some help to see each other's perspective and come to workable compromise with mutual respect.

hugs and hatzlocha

amother

Mistyrose

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 7:48 am

It’s not so normal to leave people behind who were counting on your ride. Especially a big boy who should be davening with a minyan.
Normal would be walking towards the door and calling out so everyone can hear, “BYE, I’m leaving!”
Not so normal to quietly leave the house without letting people know. It’s not the army where they have to stay lined up by the door if they plan on going with the General.
No one is asking him to change his ways. But it’s basic middos to say “hello” and “goodbye “ when entering or leaving the house.
Sounds like often the kids are really ready to go but they are hanging around waiting for him to get ready and then he sneaks out.
You really don’t want your sons treating their wives and children like that, OP. It’s best you insist that he says goodbye before he leaves so whoever planned on going along doesn’t get left behind.

amother

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 8:24 am

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

The thing here was that a timing wasnt even discussed. He mentioned he is going soon . It was not an official announcement that he is leaving this and this time and notified the kids to be ready a certain time. He just expected then to follow him once he was ready ...

amother

Turquoise

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 8:34 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Maybe next time he can say what time exactly he's leaving, instead of just saying he's leaving "soon." That way the kids can keep track of the clock on their own, and if it's important to them, they can be ready and waiting at the front door at that time. If they're not ready, of course, he doesn't have to wait, but giving them an exact time hands the responsibility over to them.

It also kind of bothers me that your DS was shocked. Assuming this is the father who was there at his birth, he should know his father well enough already to know that there are no warnings and no waiting, he has to be on top of things if he wants to go.

amother

Lawngreen

Fri, Jul 31 2020, 8:43 am

He doesn’t leave about the same time every day for minyan? Sorry I was picturing everyone knowing the routine and this being a common occurrence/dynamic - him giving a warning and then leaving on time while everyone was poking around dawdling ignoring him or otherwise doing their own thing- how old are your kids? Is this a new thing? Like in that case the norm to say “bye” could mean a whole tantrum of holding him up while everyone suddenly realizes they gotta get moving while he waits and is late and might feel disrespected as well. They do that to you as well and you don’t mind? Sorry if I made assumptions