S/o Fork vs spoon | Imamother

amother

Sage

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:03 pm

If anyone is a Diana Wynne Jones fan there's an extremely funny scene in her book Witch Week where student have been chosen to eat at the headmistress's table where they know they have to follow her lead with utensils. They manage until they get to the runny rice pudding which she was somehow eating with a fork. Haven't read that book in years but that's what immediately came to mind when reading the debate here.

Blessing1

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:04 pm

sequoia wrote:

I like eating with a spoon but am aware that it’s considered peasantish and low class, which doesn’t stop me.
I always eat kasha with a spoon.

Just because you were raised that it's low class to eat with a spoon, it doesn't mean that it is.

Rubies

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:05 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

I'm glad somebody else has the guts to put this in words.
If I should have written this I would be burned at the stake.

No you wouldn't be. There are many others just like her. Choosing to eat in way not considered mannered for personal reasons including inyan is a choice. It's not due to being uneducated.

amother

Teal

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:06 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Its not silly at all.
Your parents were aware of table manners.

Yes they were. And I never realized it was not universally taught until I came to my inlaws. I saw my younger sister in law setting the table in any random order. I tried teaching her the proper order, and she just couldn't understand what's the difference.
So I told her what I was taught...on the left is small fork then big fork. Because we eat fish first and then meat, so we take what's on the outer edge first.
On the right is the spoon then the knife, because we eat the spoon before the meat.
She thought I was nuts.

But I still cringe when I see how they eat, how they hold their forks and spoons. How they lick their fingers.

I agree there are more important things in life. But it's not a bad thing to comfort to rules of table manners, and if you ever go to a simcha or restaurant, you will find the table set in this way.

amother

Stone

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:07 pm

sequoia wrote:

I like eating with a spoon but am aware that it’s considered peasantish and low class, which doesn’t stop me.
I always eat kasha with a spoon.

I’m honestly surprised you would buy into that. Isn’t that archaic and backward thinking? I would think we as society have grown and understand those are elitist attitudes.

amother

Teal

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:10 pm

amother [ Stone ] wrote:

Thank god some parents drill the super important skills of fork vs spoon into their children. There are too many people walking around horrendously eating with spoons! Can you imagine? Don't they realize what matters most in life? How can they not force their children to eat with forks all the time? Only soup can be eaten with a spoon, and if there are pieces in the soup they better have a fork on hand for those pieces. It is so terrible that some people allow their children to just have happy memories over the dinner table, they should understand it's more important to force them to learn the proper fork usage.

No. You eat the big pieces of the soup with a spoon too.
Soup is eaten with a spoon. Period.
And when you get to the last bits, you tip the bowl AWAY from you to spoon out the last bit of soup. And you spoon it away from you, not towards you.

And you never ever bring the bowl to your lips. LOL

North Star

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:15 pm

When in public or with guests, I will use the correct utensils (but sometimes cholent is so soupy it does require a spoon.) However on my own I don’t like forks much 😂 I never really thought about it before. I like to use spoons a lot, like for rice and quinoa, potato salad,
Israeli salad...and also—don’t laugh—I like to use knives! I know, weird right? Something about slicing off a piece of chicken, and it sticks to the knife as you slide it in to your mouth...🙈

Bnei Berak 10

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:19 pm

amother [ Stone ] wrote:

This is utter exaggeration.
Nobody says its the most that matters. Nobody.
Don't you get it: Nobody is forcing their kids to eat with a fork. If they are big enough to handle a fork you lay the table with forks.
Since small kids who haven't yet mastered to use a fork you surely give them a spoon. At that age its also a bit safer.
Nobody makes an issue since the parents and bigger children all are used to using forks.
However I have not met ONE person who had complained they learned table manners and etiquette at home.

Blessing1

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:21 pm

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

Emily Post?

And who crowned her as the ultimate queen of table manners and that everyone must follow what she says? If anyone has a problem with others rachmana litzlon eating with the "wrong" utensil, it's their problem and not the problem of the one's eating.

Blessing1

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:25 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Derech Eretz and manners will never go out of style.

Just because she and you decided it's not derech eretz and manners to eat with a spoon, it doesn't mean that it actually is. It's a huge lack of derech eretz and lack of manners to be busy with how others are eating.

amother

Stone

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:26 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Derech Eretz and manners will never go out of style.

I feel sorry that you think this is what derech and eretz and manners are. This is what emily post decided. And if you want to bring torah into this bring me halachic sources that discuss a list of foods that must be used with a fork and may not be used with a spoon.

amother

Sage

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:28 pm

No it wasn't Emily Post. If you've watched Downton Abbey and seen how the servants had to measure with a ruler to make sure everything (multiple forks and multiple spoons as well as a few glasses) was placed properly you'd see it goes back way farther probably European aristocracy.
Personally as long as people use utensils and eat neatly, use serving utensils instead of personal ones, I don't get the big deal. I'm more concerned with having clean utensils to eat from than where they are placed on the table, when I'm a guest. Or whether someone chooses to eat fish with a spoon instead of a fork.

amother

Stone

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:28 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

It's supposed to be exaggeration I was making a point. I don't know how your house works but I don't lay the table with anything. My kids either set the table or get what they want. One of my kids enjoys spoons and wants to only eat with them. And I tell her sure go ahead eat however you like, life is too short to care about such nonsense.

amother

Teal

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:28 pm

amother [ Stone ] wrote:

And how did her nonsense become the word of god? And how have some people not evolved with the times?

OK. In all seriousness..
Emily Post did not make up the rules. She just complied it in a book. These rules evolved with time. Just as we have rules with dress (your top and skirt should match. And often, your shoes have to match as well) so too there are basic rules in other areas of life. Eating is a big one.

Anyone who thinks these rules are arbitrary should do themselves a favor and pay attention anytime they go to a chasuna or sheva brachos or to a nice restaurant. You will see they all follow the same rules for setting the table.

Now. I dont think this is the most important thing in the world. There are far more important things to focus on. But I was raised to have table manners and I do think it lends a certain dignity and comportment to the table when people sit appropriately (not on their feet or with their arms leaning on the table.) I do understand people who think its nonsense and feel that it is affectation.

I see people just chewing on their utensils, or playing with their utensils or eating with mouth open and it does irk me. Sorry. And I won't go for proffessional help for it. I do not lose sleep over it.

Blessing1

Sun, Dec 12 2021, 1:32 pm

ra_mom wrote:

I like eating my rice and my cholent in a bowl, with an accompanying spoon. 🤷‍♀️

Are you my twin? I like to eat out of a bowl and with a spoon. Now I'm going to run and hide before the derech eretz police come and yell how horrendously disgusting it is......